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Minimum Equipment
We need to carry a torch according to OMA however what is this actually for and what constitutes a torch? Does an iPhone's torch function meet the requirement? I'm now carrying more and more to do my job and any little reduction in items required would help.
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Good question. Email the new DFO and please post his response here!
PS I remember having to carry the Vol2 part 2....... |
I would have thought that two pilots per aircraft would be considered "minimum equipment", something they will have trouble accommodating if the resignation rate keeps going the way it is. Four more FO's that I flew with this past week are leaving. And so it goes...
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below is taken from AN(HK)O Sch 5 Scale G(iii) for your reference
(iii) (a) One electric torch for each member of the crew of the aircraft; or (b) - (aa) one electric torch for each member of the flight crew of the aircraft; and - (bb) at least one electric torch affixed adjacent to each floor level exit intended for the disembarkation of passengers whether normally or in an emergency, provided that such torches shall; -- (aaa) be readily accessible for use by the crew of the aircraft at all times; and -- (bbb) number in total not less than the minimum number of members of the cabin crew required to be carried with a full passenger complement; (L.N. 77 of 2008) |
Yes but that does not answer the question. What is the definition of a torch? Can an iPhone be considered a torch?
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Originally Posted by Sand Man
(Post 10162261)
Yes but that does not answer the question. What is the definition of a torch? Can an iPhone be considered a torch?
How on earth can you be a pilot asking such questions ? You should always be able to justify yourself to your peers, the regulator, and the public for any decision you make, including calling an iPhone a torch. if you feel like you can bet you entire licence to earn a living on that, good luck to you. |
Try doing a walk-around at night with your “iPhone as a torch” & you’ll be offloaded my aircraft quicker than you can get your “CV to Emirates”. The CX standards really are this bad nowadays. |
You'd call it a camera. Why not a torch? It isn't just a phone. |
He's got a point though - an electric torch is defined as a portable hand-held electric light. Which an iPhone can be...
Interesting that the ANO doens't put any standards on the lumens of the torch. |
Originally Posted by mngmt mole
(Post 10162156)
I would have thought that two pilots per aircraft would be considered "minimum equipment", something they will have trouble accommodating if the resignation rate keeps going the way it is. Four more FO's that I flew with this past week are leaving. And so it goes...
Bad news first... The airline will definitely have to contract, not to be confused with offering a real contract - no chance of that. I think the Management has already accepted that fact. Upgrades will continue to be pushed right as trainers resign and new aircraft orders are deferred or outright cancelled. Good news... The bases are safer than ever! CX cannot afford to lose hundreds more experienced pilots, especially cheaper (than HK expat) pilots (and trainers) who might actually be happy here. So based unions, take CX to the cleaners with your newfound leverage. You’re welcome! |
How much do they pay you? OMA says you need to carry a torch, and you come on to pprune......
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...LxZTtyg-upiAPA |
For gods sake. Put the stupid iphone away for once. |
Originally Posted by piccadillysquared
(Post 10162280)
Try doing a walk-around at night with your “iPhone as a torch” & you’ll be offloaded my aircraft quicker than you can get your “CV to Emirates”. The CX standards really are this bad nowadays. When I started at first 121 carrier (US) it was two D-cell or equivalent. Now you see guys with everything from stupid little penlites to the tactical torches from PVG markets that could probably blind a person. I still lug around a 3 D-cell Maglite. |
Torches are provided in the aircraft for emergencies and walk arounds. If you use your own TORCH for a work around that is your choice. The ANO states one torch per crew member which is provided so do we actually need to carry our own?
My question is simply what is required to be considered a torch, lumens? Take iPhone out of the discussion it was only used as an example. Get over it |
Just keep doing the work arounds.
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Originally Posted by Sand Man
(Post 10162835)
Torches are provided in the aircraft for emergencies and work arounds. If you use your own TORCH for a work around that is your choice. The ANO states one torch per crew member which is provided so do we actually need to carry our own?
My question is simply what is required to be considered a torch, lumens? Take iPhone out of the discussion it was only used as an example. Get over it Removing any emergency equipment from an aircraft is an offence. Back in my commuter days operations at a certain station aircraft cleaners were bussed out to dark planes on the ramp and I found they were using onboard equipment to clean the cabin. Yes, filed an ASAP report. We call them flashlights by the way nobody in the states knows what a torch is other than the flaming ones. |
Yes, airlines carry both removable, and non-removable (sealed or only emergency purposes) torches. One uses the the removable ones for the walk around.
Yes, a pilot must carry a torch. An iPhone light indeed covers this requirement. However, most professional carry a small, tactical/high lumen torch for this purpose, as usually they are FAR more effective on the walk around than the knackered airplane torch. Nothing to see here, move along. |
Most “professionals”.... Thats it in a nutshell. The words “fit for purpose” not only cover tools but the people supposedly using them. |
Originally Posted by Start Fore
(Post 10162961)
Yes, airlines carry both removable, and non-removable (sealed or only emergency purposes) torches. One uses the the removable ones for the walk around.
Yes, a pilot must carry a torch. An iPhone light indeed covers this requirement. However, most professional carry a small, tactical/high lumen torch for this purpose, as usually they are FAR more effective on the walk around than the knackered airplane torch. Nothing to see here, move along. In the first paragraph you state that you can take the flashlight in the cockpit for a walkaround. Then you state that you must have a torch, but that an iphone is not strong enough a torch for the walkaround... what? didn't you just say you can take the flashlight in the cockpit for that purpose? You missed your calling as a politician. |
Folks, get a life..................ALL of you!!
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It is inconceivable to me that anyone who calls himself a pilot would not have a quality flashlight with him. And readily accessible regardless of what else may or may not be on whatever equipment he is operating. For a whole bunch of common sense reasons. Maybe a couple. Maglight, Streamlight, Surefire and some others make high quality and lightweight compact equipment. It’s more than ticking a box; there are some basic common sense things in life. |
Upgrades will continue to be pushed right as trainers resign |
Few IT issues tonight ? |
Don’t knock it until you tried it
Clearly some of you have no idea.. Next time do yourself a favour and use the iPhone torch vs the walk around torch and see which one is way clearer and brighter. For the argument I am using iPhone 7 and it s@its all over the so called torch. |
Life must be pretty good if this is all we can biatch about. |
Using a Samsung phone for walkround at night. Surely thats only for selfies
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If you ask this stupid question it means you have a problem with carrying and using a decent flashlight in your bag. If you're using your phone (or that piece of garbage toys-r-us flashlight that's in the cockpit) for walk-around inspections, do the professional pilot gene pool a favor and stay home. Get a job making french fries or something. Why are you even a pilot if you don't want to do this job adequately which is obvious from what you choose to spend your brain energy on wondering how you could do less rather than better to find an infinite list of things that could be wrong with the aircraft you're about to take into the sky with hundreds of passengers or tons of cargo on-board?
I'd love to say this to you in person as I have to several individuals for the same exact reason at cx recently. A few years ago (late night flight), there was a fueling issue and I happened to go down there to see what the problem was. Engineer walked over to me to tell me "the deflated tire" and the one next to it will have to be replaced so there will be a delay! It was not hot so it had not deflated recently. This was just after another pilot had done the walk-around... with that inadequate POS so called torch from the cockpit and hadn't seen it. It was very obvious once you shined a decent light on it. It would have turned into a shrapnel bomb during takeoff. So if you feel the need to think about how you can do less towards your professional responsibilities rather than more, please do us all a favor and stay home. Things are bad enough around here already. |
Originally Posted by VforVENDETTA
(Post 10164981)
If you ask this stupid question it means you have a problem with carrying and using a decent flashlight in your bag. If you're using your phone (or that piece of garbage toys-r-us flashlight that's in the cockpit) for walk-around inspections, do the professional pilot gene pool a favor and stay home. Get a job making french fries or something. Why are you even a pilot if you don't want to do this job adequately which is obvious from what you choose to spend your brain energy on wondering how you could do less rather than better to find an infinite list of things that could be wrong with the aircraft you're about to take into the sky with hundreds of passengers or tons of cargo on-board?
I'd love to say this to you in person as I have to several individuals for the same exact reason at cx recently. A few years ago (late night flight), there was a fueling issue and I happened to go down there to see what the problem was. Engineer walked over to me to tell me "the deflated tire" and the one next to it will have to be replaced so there will be a delay! It was not hot so it had not deflated recently. This was just after another pilot had done the walk-around... with that inadequate POS so called torch from the cockpit and hadn't seen it. It was very obvious once you shined a decent light on it. It would have turned into a shrapnel bomb during takeoff. So if you feel the need to think about how you can do less towards your professional responsibilities rather than more, please do us all a favor and stay home. Things are bad enough around here already. |
CX’s social media stars should be given a dispensation from the torch/flashlight requirement and allowed smartphones for the walkaround. A smartphone would not only illuminate the ‘superjet’ :yuk: (apologies to Sukhoi) but also themselves as they pose for the next cringeworthy upload. |
Traveller, you don’t want a 400 lumens torch with a 300 foot range if all you want to do is look at something on the flightdeck. |
I’ve got more time in the flare than most of these newbies have flying. Dumb questions have always been around, they’re just much more common these days. Sad that it has come to this, but this is the world we live in... style over substance, social media in place of skill sets, and cost ahead of safety. Eventually, the traveling public will demand better, but it will cost hundreds (if not thousands) of lives before that day comes. |
AerocatS2A
It is NOT just for looking at something on the flight deck!:ugh: |
Originally Posted by iceman50
(Post 10168732)
AerocatS2A
It is NOT just for looking at something on the flight deck!:ugh: |
Jesus..... Are you guys still talking about a f@#$_ing torch.... ?
Nowonder the rest of the world hates pilots..... Bunch of pedantic whingers the lot of em. And you wonder why the public never takes the pilots side in any PR incident..... Jesus! |
Originally Posted by RAT Management
(Post 10168766)
Jesus..... Are you guys still talking about a f@#$_ing torch.... ?
Nowonder the rest of the world hates pilots..... Bunch of pedantic whingers the lot of em. And you wonder why the public never takes the pilots side in any PR incident..... Jesus! Why do you guys feel threatened if someone uses a phone as a torch? Does carrying around a super torch worth hundreds of dollars make you a better operator? Surely you can see that it really does not matter at all. Big picture!!! |
Bingo........ |
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