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Minimum Equipment

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Minimum Equipment

Old 1st Jun 2018, 05:47
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Minimum Equipment

We need to carry a torch according to OMA however what is this actually for and what constitutes a torch? Does an iPhone's torch function meet the requirement? I'm now carrying more and more to do my job and any little reduction in items required would help.
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 06:20
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Good question. Email the new DFO and please post his response here!

PS I remember having to carry the Vol2 part 2.......
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 07:32
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I would have thought that two pilots per aircraft would be considered "minimum equipment", something they will have trouble accommodating if the resignation rate keeps going the way it is. Four more FO's that I flew with this past week are leaving. And so it goes...
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 08:47
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below is taken from AN(HK)O Sch 5 Scale G(iii) for your reference

(iii)
(a) One electric torch for each member of the crew of the aircraft; or
(b)
- (aa) one electric torch for each member of the flight crew of the aircraft; and
- (bb) at least one electric torch affixed adjacent to each floor level exit intended for the disembarkation of passengers whether normally or in an emergency, provided that such torches shall;
-- (aaa) be readily accessible for use by the crew of the aircraft at all times; and
-- (bbb) number in total not less than the minimum number of members of the cabin crew required to be carried with a full passenger complement;
(L.N. 77 of 2008)
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 09:35
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Yes but that does not answer the question. What is the definition of a torch? Can an iPhone be considered a torch?
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 10:00
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Originally Posted by Sand Man View Post
Yes but that does not answer the question. What is the definition of a torch? Can an iPhone be considered a torch?
Would you be happy standing up in court or being portrayed in the press as not even knowing that an iPhone is an iPhone and a torch is a torch.

How on earth can you be a pilot asking such questions ? You should always be able to justify yourself to your peers, the regulator, and the public for any decision you make, including calling an iPhone a torch.

if you feel like you can bet you entire licence to earn a living on that, good luck to you.
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 10:11
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Try doing a walk-around at night with your “iPhone as a torch” & you’ll be offloaded my aircraft quicker than you can get your “CV to Emirates”.

The CX standards really are this bad nowadays.
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 10:38
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You'd call it a camera. Why not a torch? It isn't just a phone.
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 10:39
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He's got a point though - an electric torch is defined as a portable hand-held electric light. Which an iPhone can be...

Interesting that the ANO doens't put any standards on the lumens of the torch.
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 13:40
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Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
I would have thought that two pilots per aircraft would be considered "minimum equipment", something they will have trouble accommodating if the resignation rate keeps going the way it is. Four more FO's that I flew with this past week are leaving. And so it goes...
Good news, bad news.

Bad news first... The airline will definitely have to contract, not to be confused with offering a real contract - no chance of that. I think the Management has already accepted that fact. Upgrades will continue to be pushed right as trainers resign and new aircraft orders are deferred or outright cancelled.

Good news... The bases are safer than ever! CX cannot afford to lose hundreds more experienced pilots, especially cheaper (than HK expat) pilots (and trainers) who might actually be happy here. So based unions, take CX to the cleaners with your newfound leverage. You’re welcome!
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 15:37
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How much do they pay you? OMA says you need to carry a torch, and you come on to PPRuNe......
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 17:59
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For gods sake.

Put the stupid iphone away for once.
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 22:13
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Originally Posted by piccadillysquared View Post
Try doing a walk-around at night with your “iPhone as a torch” & you’ll be offloaded my aircraft quicker than you can get your “CV to Emirates”.

The CX standards really are this bad nowadays.
Ha! Where is the like button?
When I started at first 121 carrier (US) it was two D-cell or equivalent.
Now you see guys with everything from stupid little penlites to the tactical torches from PVG markets that could probably blind a person. I still lug around a 3 D-cell Maglite.
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 22:47
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Torches are provided in the aircraft for emergencies and walk arounds. If you use your own TORCH for a work around that is your choice. The ANO states one torch per crew member which is provided so do we actually need to carry our own?

My question is simply what is required to be considered a torch, lumens? Take iPhone out of the discussion it was only used as an example. Get over it

Last edited by Sand Man; 2nd Jun 2018 at 01:05.
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Old 1st Jun 2018, 23:57
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Just keep doing the work arounds.
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Old 2nd Jun 2018, 00:54
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Originally Posted by Sand Man View Post
Torches are provided in the aircraft for emergencies and work arounds. If you use your own TORCH for a work around that is your choice. The ANO states one torch per crew member which is provided so do we actually need to carry our own?

My question is simply what is required to be considered a torch, lumens? Take iPhone out of the discussion it was only used as an example. Get over it
Sorry I'm not with CX. CX provisions torches for on the aircraft for walk arounds?

Removing any emergency equipment from an aircraft is an offence.

Back in my commuter days operations at a certain station aircraft cleaners were bussed out to dark planes on the ramp and I found they were using onboard equipment to clean the cabin. Yes, filed an ASAP report. We call them flashlights by the way nobody in the states knows what a torch is other than the flaming ones.
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Old 2nd Jun 2018, 04:10
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Yes, airlines carry both removable, and non-removable (sealed or only emergency purposes) torches. One uses the the removable ones for the walk around.

Yes, a pilot must carry a torch. An iPhone light indeed covers this requirement. However, most professional carry a small, tactical/high lumen torch for this purpose, as usually they are FAR more effective on the walk around than the knackered airplane torch.

Nothing to see here, move along.
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Old 2nd Jun 2018, 06:42
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Most “professionals”.... Thats it in a nutshell.

The words “fit for purpose” not only cover tools but the people supposedly using them.
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Old 2nd Jun 2018, 12:21
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Originally Posted by Start Fore View Post
Yes, airlines carry both removable, and non-removable (sealed or only emergency purposes) torches. One uses the the removable ones for the walk around.

Yes, a pilot must carry a torch. An iPhone light indeed covers this requirement. However, most professional carry a small, tactical/high lumen torch for this purpose, as usually they are FAR more effective on the walk around than the knackered airplane torch.

Nothing to see here, move along.
Actually, there is still something to see, so I won't move along.
In the first paragraph you state that you can take the flashlight in the cockpit for a walkaround. Then you state that you must have a torch, but that an iphone is not strong enough a torch for the walkaround... what? didn't you just say you can take the flashlight in the cockpit for that purpose?
You missed your calling as a politician.
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Old 2nd Jun 2018, 12:35
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Devil

Folks, get a life..................ALL of you!!
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