Current Negotiations
 

Anyone heard how the current negotiations are going?

Its so so top secret they had to cross the South China Sea and have meetings in "Manila" which will all know is a code name for Angeles City where a deal is being struck out over a bikini clad filipina and a few shots of Tequila. Eitherway an element of trouser dropping and bending over is highly likely.

The reason why MNL was chosen is there is an abundant supply of local green pineapples. It was easier to move the negotiator to the green pineapples than the pineapples to negotiator.

If negotiations were to be held in HKG there was not enough storage space to store enough pineapples to last 4-8 weeks, and some might be ripen in the process.

I heard its MNL as the negotiations are so exhausting they are doing continuous split duties with 3 hours sleep to make sure they are well rested for the next day's flogging

Early last week a deal was struck on the hkpa but as usually the rostering practices is the hold up. Thats what this is all about in the first place

I wonder if the 'management' team will be flown home on the return 'split duty' flight where their crew will have had three hours' sleep....nah, too early in the morning for them.

It is much easier to bribe the negotiators and set up Panamanian bank accounts in the Philippines. The likelihood of getting caught is far less and if you do, bribe the Official.

Do you trust your negotiators? Has your Union let you down in the past with negotiations i.e. 30 days free reserve, loss of 5-4-3 rules, loss of reserve timing to limit FDP,(for those old enough to know) etc.

The CPG will come out on top of these negotiations and the Union will have to give up key items if a term is reached (10 year Term of no industrial action i.e. no training ban, no work to rule, salaried 72 hour month and straight time working credit to 84, free reserve on layovers, 93 hours straight time month for bases, etc. All these and more for the promise of a new beaten down rostering/leave system and a little more housing for new joiners.

Rest assured that housing will remain the same for Senior Levels of the HKAOA.

There will be other key items but your negotiators are giving these up as we speak. Your leaders will recommend the contract. If the vote does not go through, a revote will be taken and it will pass the second time, even if rigging the votes are necessary.

You will see this contract compliance is futile, the union will not get close to what it was asking. We will win, as Our Negotiators are far superior in their ability. The HKAOA will not walk away from the table as there will be a backlash amongst it members as most are getting weary and want this settled as soon as possible.

There are many pilots wanting to join the superior training system and they are the loudest to stop contract compliance.

To Our Bonus
The Management

There is an old saying - "hungry dogs will eat dirty puddings".
Well, I am not that hungry and the kind of pudding that "The Management" is suggesting is too dirty even for me to touch. I vote NO to any further erosion of Conditions Of Service.

@ the management

Yes, I trust our negotiators!

We'll see who comes out on top, the fat lady (Is it still PC to say that?) hasn't sung yet.

Pretty low to suggest the aoa team would be up for bribery.
These folk work their butts of for our benefit, know several of them personally and I can say that they would never take a pay-off.

Not sure what your game is, it's been fun up to now, but you went too far.
Out of character, sir...

Latest is Manila was marginal and still at an impass, the company is up to its usual games yet again.

Curtain and natca....

That's fine. No problem. We can resume negotiations next May.

Relax.

An impasse? Good! Stare them down boys. They have much more to lose than we do. The Management can come to see that, or they can drive CX into the ground. Their choice. Part of me hopes to not get a deal and call AT's bluff. I'm very curious what she has up her skirt... Not literally of course. Saw enough of her jiggle for one lifetime already.

Unfortunately
The Management is spot on
BTW WTF are we in Manilla?
Beyond , beyond a joke !!
@HKAOAGC
@ROD

"Neutral" negotiations venues are statistically proven to be more likely to achieve a deal. Getting those involved away from the pressures at home and/or office responsibilities to focus solely on negotiations is wise. I agree wholeheartedly with that approach and have wondered in the past why it was not more commonly utilized by the HKAOA. Trying to cut deals in meeting rooms at CX City is not in the pilots' best interests. Similarly, you won't see airlines clamoring to meet in pilot unions' offices either. Common sense really.

I was under the impression that ngotiations did not take place in Cathay city. I think the Novotel in Tung Chung is often used for negotiations.

Negs have in the past been in CX City, but yes, the Novotel has been used recently. That doesn't remove home / office pressures however.

The Management is not far off the mark. Previous AOA leaders have sold us down the river for their own personal gain.
The man responsible for our 30 days free reserve and the 49er's re-vote when he didn't get the results he wanted is a perfect example.
Management have spy cams and mics in every hotel room that the negotiating team has been provided with. The AOA is a group of amateurs being out-witted at every turn.

Same old story. The two sides were too far apart on key issues, blah, blah, blah.
Here is your new contract, sign or be fired.

The only way to get anywhere with this company is to ground the fleet. Will never happen due to the gutless, spineless nature of a Cathay Pacific pilot so just sit back and take it.

What a load of trot
What are we negotiating again ?
This one smells like a steaming hot one , again.

Someone else did say that but Rod and the GC ignored them. Members get ignored all the time as our last few Presidents have decided that they and the GC decide what's best for the members. After reading the articles about the Gen Sec, CB, I am concerned that we will get another "Deal' slammed down our throats and as "The Mgmt" said, it eventually will get voted in. If you do not agree with whatever comes to pass, vote NO and NO Confidence in the representation.

I agree with you Dan. We should have never entered into any negotiations without having RPs back first. This is why we entered CC in the first place. It had nothing to do with HKPA. So the President, and GC, have decided, without a vote, to enter into negotiations over more than RPs. I am just making a point. In addition, the President and GC are doing other things without approval or vote of the membership. I'll leave it there.

@ Dilbert68

Can you give an example of how this person gained from the 30 day free reserve?

I certainly hope the aoa neg team is smart enough to get their own hotel rooms.
If they weren't, I certainly hope cx in-house IT team installed the cams/mics, in which case they won't work properly..

Then that person could add their name to the list that includes Philby, Burgess, Blunt and Maclean. Hypothetically.

Except, er, that us based crew also sit free reserve... both on home base AND in HKG.

They are also in cc because of the unnecessary and extremely limiting changes to A days.

Oh and if you are on a base try bidding for a W at the moment! They are rarer than a happy CX SO! Anyway can't HKG crews bid for W's as well?

W patterns should only be awarded to based crew once ALL Hong Kong crew have received a W. Being on a base is the ultimate lifestyle request. Being rostered W's in front of HKG crew is not on (but it happens)

Anywho, we don't negotiate with terrorists, or at least I thought that was the policy.

So give us back all the things you stole from us, and then we'll talk.

Simples.

Ignorant beliefs like these only serve to divide your fellow pilots. There is no base, including HKG, that is more or less important than any other. We all are entitled to a proper roster regardless of base, fleet, or rank.

Keep the screws turned on CC to get a fair rostering system for all.

Whenever a view is contrary to ones own, the old chestnut of 'stop the divide and conquer' is trundled out.
You can have your W on the base BTK, but from the end of the queue once all HKG pilots have been rostered a W. If that doesn't suit, feel free to come back to the HKG base for your W. No?
Cake and eat it too?

Always feel a little miffed when someone senior to me complains about my superior lifestyle due to being on a base! If that's how you feel then perhaps you should have applied for a base yourself! Of course scavangepump may not be senior to me, but that doesn't explain the many who constantly complain and who are.

I never was a massive fan of having separate AOA unions, but after reading the discriminatory views of scavangepump and ill informed posts from CR about the bases in this thread then perhaps it's not a bad thing after all. Tend to agree with BTK comments, but as for others reading this post then if you really are of the opinion that being HKG based makes you somehow superior to people on a base, regardless of seniority, then perhaps the US, EUR, and AUS should follow the Canadian example of negotiating with CX. Of course we could try running a system based on seniority, but even if the company were to play ball I suspect some of our HKG members would still feel more important than others and expect to be treated accordingly!

As you ARE senior to me then please for the sake of clarity just write the facts instead of harping on about your "hypothetical" story. As for suggesting all Pres and GC members are somehow corrupted by their posn because of what "might" have happened 9-12 years ago is at best unreasonable!

Guys/gals, we have crew who have never been based in Hkg and we have crew that have never been on a base outside Hkg. The grass is never greener on the other side, everything has its advantages and disadvantages.

Understanding and tolerance is needed by everyone. The new crew rostering system if used as designed will produce very efficient rosters for both crew and the company. We need to step back and think what artificial constraints like Ws, minimum 9 days off a month etc, need to be tossed to make life better for everyone. What works on the 777 may not work on the 747 etc.

With the common jet salary there should be common fairness through each pilots careers.

CR

Are you then saying the GC and Pres have your full confidence? Good to hear! However, please explain with facts your "hypothetical" story as you do seem to be suggesting that past GC's/Pres (circa 2004-07) may have used their posn to feather their own nest. Do you have any evidence/names to back up the "explanation" you gave? Just to be clear please understand that the 30 free res are fully utilised on bases as well as HKG.

He may be referring to someone with the same initials as a famous UK sports car manufacturer of bygone days?

I wasn't clear enough, what I meant to say was:

There was an accusation earlier that a certain previous aoa president had personally benefited by 'selling us down the river' with 30 day reserve and re-vote on the 49er rehire.

My question is: How did this past president (alledgedly) benefit?

oasis
 

Well how many AOA Presidents got a year and a half off the roster, on full pay, to sort out all the problems? I remember the President before stating the company were trying their hardest to keep him busy and give him minimum days off.

That and an undisclosed settlement from the rostering court case.

Enough fire for the smoke?

I hate W's my friend so you can have every one of them, filll your boots. However if WE pilots want them, then WE pilots should have them EQUALLY in seniority for all base areas.

To those on this thread talking conspiracy about the President and GC: please tell me you have discussed your concerns in person or via email with them versus coming on an anonymous forum and throwing stones.

Is it worth pointing out that during the 49ers period it was the AOA GC and President that were fired first by the company.

One of the most thankless jobs on the planet.

Rumor has it that the deal for HKPA will NOT be backdated at all. Deal-breaker for me. I'll vote no.