Slowjet
 

Finally someone stood up and kept our hopes alive.

Slowjet: Well said! - nothing to add.

Good luck CX.. and the instructors.. :} remember guys run your LEFT PACKS on HIGH:ok: (I hope BOEING guys get my drift:p) on accepting on these guys..

i got information yesterday that an Indonesian airline, have stopped taking Indian pilots even though they are desperately in of need pilots... they found of these indian pilots where of poor standards, and found a few with fake typeratings and Indian licenses..Meaning, they paid a official to endorse a typerating without any training on that type.. the airline found it troublesome to validate the Indian DGCA licence, it took ages,:ugh: even longer than SE Asian time..for doing things... :p

How does it work in other countries? This guy wouldn't have been able to bribe his way out of being FIRED, that's how it works in other countries.

spot on. the current prime minister of india is just a puppet. he is answerable to certain other people who are running the country. we are helpless and can't do anything about it. revolutions and protests are on the streets, but they fade away in no time. media is controlled by the government. so they try to bring down the issue if it goes out of hand. the rich and the upper-middle class couldn't be happier living a great life in india. there's plenty and plenty of money there. it is obviously the lower middle class and the poor that are suffering which is shown to all of you watching BBC/CNN. it will take decades for things to get better.

as for the recruiters at CX, I don't think they would even bother looking at the indian licence, when the prsopective cadet holds an Australian/NZ CPL. those pilots will have an added advantage over the others. there are many indian pilots who were trained in australia and some of them have been selected for the 2nd stage in hong kong. I'm sure they're as good as some of the pilots in australia, considering they went through the same training standards.

by the way, is the simulator check ride done during stage 2? what is the pilot checked on? NDB, VOR intercepts? ILS?

HSI and RMI would be key...Intercept for one is very important, I think for advance entry cadets holding procedures like parallel , direct and teardrop entry would be key.

Localizer, ILS and glideslope check should be fun..

NDB approaches no longer allowed at CX so why bother studying it?

BYE BYE shivamjoshi

Sensitivity sometimes reaches a point of boredom.. Further elongates insubstantial infos..

Anyhow..

I think flight grading will be composed of nav flights and maneuvers.. Just wondering how to land a grob low wing compared to a cessna... Ground effect must be a diff feel .. Anyone who have tried to fly a grob?

Yes, flare and then take both hands off the controls, put them above your head and yell AUTOLAND!!!

Hahaha.. :D i wonder why your still alive.. Flying that way.

Must be terribly hard, I'm sure some magical human being has tried... and succeeded! Surely, if you can land a grob, or any low wing light trainer, there will be several major airlines beating on your front door so that you may bring these magical skills to their training departments. :roll eyes:

Crashes continue to plague Indian air force

Maybe CX can start a training program for the air-force. 33 crashes in 3 years. Wow, lets get some of these guys on board, only the best for Hong Kong's premier carrier.

:ok:

haha. look at you guys. a bunch of jobless nitwits digging up articles and reports on india. i'm very glad that all of you are taking keen interest in my country and its issues. if you have so much time in life (rather than flying for CX), I think you should just quit, come here and sort things out.

how come you don't want to take some time off in posting news reports on the crimes, scandals in your country and the airplane crashes (GA or not) and criticize the crappy pilots from there, and some of them even ending up at CX.

you have no clue about the pilots who cleared the CX stage 1 interview in india. if you choose to be ignorant about our skills, you're in deep trouble. but we are as good as some of you. you just go by the reports of the local newspaper and boom - there comes the verdict. do some in-depth analysis and research. you start bashing and whining when the news of fake pilots was out and started talking crap about us. but you forgot that not all 12,000 pilots had fake licences. you forgot to mention that the dgca did a good job by taking stern action against those who had fake licences.

what is your point in putting up all these reports here? people awareness. you're doing it to the wrong people then. let me give you a good tip to that not-so-smart brain of yours - why don't you make a presentation to chris pratt, john slosar and richard hall about your worries regarding indian pilots instead? they will definitely listen to you, won't they? i thought all of you were sensible enough to realize that the very same indian pilots who got selected for stage 2 are not going to listen to your BS. how are you even going to work in a multi-cultural organization? you wouldn't even tolerate it I reckon. CX made a big mistake by hiring you. are you guys actually working for CX? you don't even have the gall to reveal your names. what are you scared of?

I thought we already tried Indian S/O's... BTW, she's no longer with us.

oh yes, now we come back to the same old story...she (an indian S/O) was terminated. :ugh:

all the brits/aussies/canadians/americans are happy and clapping together rejoicing that moment.

It's not about skills, or which country produces better pilots (i havent seen a correlation between nationality and flying skill personally) It's about crewing aircraft at the lowest cost. To buy experience from developed countries is relatively expensive - they have to provide for an equivalent standard of living or nobody with experience will bite (as was demonstrated when C scale was initially offered to the B scale holding pool)
Offering C scale to Ab initio is a different story - many are willing to take a lowball offer in exchange for the 'security' of going to a legacy carrier from day one, thus eliminating/minimising the risks, teethgrinding and headaches of 'climbing the ladder' to the big jets.

Going to developing countries on the other hand opens up an opportunity to crew at a cheaper rate, not just for ab initio, but to bring in experienced Jet drivers on lower rates as well. One man's lowball deal is another's way to a better life.

It's a shame that CX is taking this route, but hey, I'd probably do it too if I were the one filling out the ledger books.

Honestly, I would like to nominate you for the most ignorant statement award. The same organization that allowed all these fake licenses ruled that the reason was "rapid expansion". Yeah, that is to blame. Not the incompetence and corruption on their shoulders. If only there was an agency whose purpose was to uphold safety in the face of commercial pressure... :rolleyes:

I'm gonna enjoy flying with you. You seem to have a good sense of humor. :}

Of course I do. You might get lucky to see it one day. But I don't know who you are, cause you haven't revealed your name yet.

I wish CX would read this entire thread and many more on all your troubles and worries regarding the airline. not one of you is able to address this issue to the company. instead, you will always log onto PPRuNe and do all the bashing which is very very unprofessional. you folks keep telling us 'you have been warned' or 'don't tell me you weren't warned' and all that nonsense.

it isn't we who degraded this glorified profession. it is your company that did so. blame it on them, not us you imbeciles !! don't question our standards. many of us (not all of us) have done the same training in your country as you did.

How do you know that? There have been many senior pilots, training captains, management pilots voicing their concerns about the new path CX is taking with recruiting. Its one of the reasons many who used to are no longer conducting interviews. This is constantly brought up as being a bad idea, not only on pprune but also in the management offices at Cathay City. Once again it is not about race it is about hiring the lowest qualified guys on the lowest package, the ratio of competent pilots in CX will fall. Yes some will be good, some outstanding but the ones who should probably not be in a cockpit will increase. It just so happens that Indias track record with aviation is a bit of a joke and that is where CX is focusing some resources for recruitment. It just shocks those who remember the standards that used to be imposed on new joiners.

You are right. but isn't cathay going to pick the best among the indian pilots and not all??????? do not underestimate us. whether you like it or not, have faith that only the best will get through. don't judge us on the basis of our past records. you are again criticizing the entire indian pilot community.

You, kind sir, are a naive fool!

Commercial pressures have been brought to bear. The bean counters merely see a necessity to get bums on seats, regardless of who you are and where you're from.

Why are they pitching so hard for guys with a CPL & 250 hours?

Well, CX thought they could get anyone world wide with zero hours to join a cadet course, and then sponsor their residency in HK. Thankfully the HKID have (correctly) identified that plan as a breach of the concept of "labour is imported only when said skills are not available locally", and put a lid on it. Hence, you need to meet a minimum experience & qualification level to be sponsored - and guess what! That threshold is a CPL & 250 hrs.

Put more simply, CX are pitching at the absolute minimum standard which they can legally offer. They tried lower, and were stopped by the government. Now, the real tragedy is that this "legal" minimum has, in effect, always been there, but they have never even gone close to it. Until they started to offer only the local package, even to expats, anyone with just a CPL & 250 hrs would not have even been considered.

Why the big change? Easy - no one with higher experience levels wants to touch this contract. Not only that, most of the absolute minimum qualification guys from "traditional recruiting markets" realise that this contract is a joke.

The bottom line is that the mere fact that they're pitching at this level shows a sheer desperation on the part of the bean counters to put bums in seats. It's nothing to do with nationality, it's about experience levels.

A million times....a million times we've been trying to tell you...you still don't get it??? what does it take to feed just a bit of information into all your brains??? Agreed it is about experience. what are we to do about it? we don't fancy this contract. the low-time pilots from traditional recruiting markets (TRM) will obviously find this contract as a joke and decline it, but they have other options (GA). Yet again, there are low-time pilots from Australia taking up this offer.

there are not enough jobs for 6000 unemployed pilots in india. they can't go to europe or usa or africa or australia looking for work. what were you thinking when CX came to India? all of the 77 indian pilots wouldn't show up for the interviews??? Wrong! We are desperately looking for a job. now only half of them may have made it to the next stage. get this straight all you cynics - WE didn't degrade your working and living conditions. Please be more smart enough to realize that it is your dear company that did so. they knocked on our doors and we opened it. You have no right to lock us in. don't give the ''you were warned'' nonsense again.

Some of you may say it isn't about nationality, it is about experience. but there are quite a few (presently flying for CX) who are disturbed more about the nationality factor than the experience levels. please don't deny that. it is very evident from some of the posts in this thread and other forums.

Like smurf (from India) mentioned, the dreaded 'R' word definitely exists in some working CX pilots and cadets from the so-called TRM. Don't deny that either. these very same people think that there is only one colour in this entire world, and that is WHITE. how much ever you try to hide that thought, it is there deep inside you - the hatred towards us. it will never end. mind you, i'm talking about only a few people. not all. it disgusts me and i don't understand what makes them feel this way, but it just isn't going to work inside a cockpit and in a profession with utmost discipline. if you thought it is, that would certainly be a recipe for disaster. so much for CRM.

Robin,

After your performance on here on a now closed thread, you are the LAST person who should be lecturing anyone about racism. What you wrote was beyond belief. You have lost credibility on this site with those words.

j3

The manner in which some of the potential recruits are conducting themselves in this forum speaks volumes about what kind of pilots we are soon to be sharing our cockpits with. To be completely fair, I feel that posts from our boys could be more restrained as well.

However, I'm getting a real sense of entitlement and cockiness from some of the individual posters here. The "system" will take care of that if indeed they (the cocky ones) are hired.

I have a few Indian friends and I think very highly of them - so race is not a motivator in my (reluctant) decision to make a post.

Acknowledge (as some posters have) that the real issue here is the sub-standard contract being offered - and all that means for the future of existing contracts. Jeez... I'm starting to sound like an old A-scaler!

Robin.

I am surprised that you seem so keen to join a club that so obviously does not want you? If we are all WHITE supremacists as you seem to imagine, then surely, for you, this is not the working environment to join?

Please do try not to lecture me on my personal qualities or my CRM ability until at the very least we have met. It is insulting.

what makes you not wanting me is the provocation caused due to the comments/scathing remarks made by some of the pilots (CX or not) against Indians and indian pilots. i will not tolerate it, sit and read all the rubbish some of you write about us. it may not be in this thread. those certain other threads have been deleted cause things went out of hand, because of the racist remarks being made against us. such is the nature of a few pilots who despise us. and you couldn't have said it better - this would certainly not be the perfect working environment for me if i had a captain and a F/O who have issues against indians.

Please keep in mind, my previous post was referring to only a few people, NOT ALL. I am NOT insulting YOU. But I will insult the personal/CRM abilities of pilots who doubt our strengths and glorify our weaknesses, which CX has to take note of such elements at some point of time !!!

PNM - you are absolutely right. the system will take care of the cocky ones.

Robin.

Again you are insulting.
Please stop.
You are not doing your cause any good.

Robin, I got the previous thread shutdown as a result of racial vilification from numerous parties, you included. Whilst I do not condone the comments from previous posters, your reaction to such is unacceptable. If this is how you respond under "pressure" then I suggest you may be better suited to another profession.

Robin,

I chose to stay away from this thread as the debate was going nowhere. :)
Initially, we keep blaming each other and eventually the airline. I suggest you keep your emotions in control and refrain from aggressive comments. This is for your benefit. I think you went overboard in another thread (with an Australian pilot who also got carried away) which was deleted for good.

The show must go on.

Robin sounds a lot like an ex-indian SO that used to work for us...

Last 3 months
 

In 2012, cx hired about 100 new so's.

of that 100, only 1 had the guts to tell cx to shove it.

The latest recruiting dive in Japan was a complete flop ,no suitable canidates
Cheers

Was that pun intentional? :)

STP

sorry to burst your bubble pasa, however I wonder who all those japanese young men in black in the medical section and in the CX City street were the other day then...a shinto buddhist convention..? The word apparently is that they are to a very high standard academically and professionally, standard of english something to be concerned about, and of course there is something of a cultural divide...to put it mildly...:ok:

I'm confused
 

New hunting grounds for SO's? Myself and a few other aviatiors I know have applications in with CX and not heard boo. We all have over 500 hours TT and we also have a good mix of multi piston and S/E Turbine command. I cant think of any reason why none of us have had a call. If only a couple out of us got called I would understand but there are five of us an no one has been contacted in the 12 months since we applied.

Are the people recruited from "new grounds" being paid any less than current SO's? Does this mean no one from the traditional recruiting grounds will be called anymore?

Ah. Now youve got it::}

That is because they are looking for "compliant and weak" candidates that can be intimidated and controlled. They realize that certain country's candidates are likely to leave when ever they want, and are less likely to be intimidated.

Take Australia, they thought they would just push some IP pilots around a bit, and they ended up being pushed back. Like a bully, they don't like getting a taste of their own medicine.

The countries from which they are recruiting now will not give them any problem in this regard and they lack any fair justice systems or have such a compliant culture that conflict is avoided at all costs, even personal sacrifice.

Yes STP it was a complete DIVE;)