Hell, I'll drink and chat to anyone down route.:ok:

you are a sad bunch of LIMP dicks


So go ahead, let CX in conjuntion with these guys screw your career and continue to interpret your COS in their own way.


As I'm already a Captain It doesn't really effect me anyway, I try to think of others.

I think you A scalers would be surprised at the level of feeling amoungst the 777 F/O's and S/O's I fly with. It exists and no amount of rubbishing me changes that.


Doesn't matter, only a small % of CX Crew bother to read this site anyway.

ACMS, after the Oasis guys, its the 80 or so KA DEFO (40 on automatic upgrade to LHS 747-400) you will have to deal with. Only 11 of them ever showed any interest in joining the DPA. Of course they all bleated about how useless the DPA was and refused to join.

Why not ask them when they come across (sorry thats now they are across), will you be joining the AOA, if its as equally inept as the DPA.

Ex Oasis, Ex Ka, they will all weaken your negotiating position with their readiness to skip seniority, and the 100s of CX guys ahead of them.

And exactly what is their vast experience consisting of which grants them the right for automatic upgrade ? Global freighter operations, ha ha thats a joke, none of these guys has ever flown to more than 3 destinations!

I am off topic, but hey its still relevant.

ACMS, I just got back from the Wanch....spending my A scale bucks. Your latest post is just about the most hilarious, juvenile, embarrassing missive I have ever read. Very eloquent intro..... Please, keep writing, you don't realise how much enjoyment and reading pleasure you provide. :ok:

ACMS you appear to be playing the man and not the ball.

yes I agree. KA freighter guys, DEFO's, X Oasis Pilot's etc etc

All a big problem, especially when guys like these don't care.


All i know is that everytime I go to the bar, go to dispatch or go to Starbucks the topic of conversation invariably leads to these guys/girls aiding and abetting the company. The young guys are pissed off and quite righly so.
It's not simply a question of blaming the company. These guys knew what they were doing, pure and simple.
The fact that they are retired A scale doesn't really matter, we would think the same if they were retired B or C scale guys.

It just makes it worse to see those guys that did very well in CX over a 20+ year career with very nice PF's coming back as basically DEC on a !!!! payscale.

What exactly are they on? Well I'm reliably told they've accepted a poultry $87,000 HKD month with no housing allowance. They CAN accept this low pay because they don't need the money.

Apple Tree Yard and his ilk don't object because they too want to do the same thing in a few years time, DON'T YOU MATE.

Don't bother denying it, over 90% of guys approaching 55 said "no way, I'm not going into training" then guess what, 5 months before retirement they "see the company light" tossers


So you can blame the company all you want, but we do know where they stand don't we.
=they will bend the FTL's where required
=not pay bypass pay to F/O's until assessed which is against their contracts
=upgrade out of seniority
=pay a little as they CAN GET AWAY WITH

How can they do this? Because we have a bunch of selfish twits only thinking of themselves instead of a unified cohesive UNITED work force.


yeah.............

ACMS
 

Mate, if you are married, its a fair bet your wife will be on Valium or some other happy pill - if so, you should take a couple and try and calm down a little.
Other than that, not that I'd wish it on anyone, but a life changing experience can put a whole new perspective of how trivial these little things can be, concerned with the larger picture.
Try and settle down a little before you bring one on yourself. A lot of your post on other topics posts are pretty much on the nail, but I think you have lost it a little with this one.

I'm fine thanks mate.

I love my job and always look forward to going to work.

Doesn't mean I will give up wanting WHAT's RIGHT.

So let me see. In a while CX will say that the new payscale for HKG PAX Captains is say 90,000 month. Then most of our guys wont take it. Then they will say "look, no one wants the positions, so we will employ DEC's"

That's what they DID already with these HK freighter positions.

I wonder how close to 55 you are ACMS and do you have young children or were you fortunate to have children when you were young. This increasing the age limit has been around for a very long time this is not so new and some people joined thinking that it would mean they would have a longer career than they would have otherwise and therefore give them more time to make up the money they missed out on by not being A scalers I wonder what your decision will be as you approach age 55. You have no idea what personal reasons have been involved with the decision for some of these guys to choose to continue flying and maybe they just don't want to give up as they still enjoy their job.

yes extended retirement age NEGOTIATED by a strong UNION.

Not by individuals with personal agendas.

I too am in favour of extending the RA. I never said I wasn't.

BUT, I don't favour it at the expense of my junior colleagues.

A BIG DIFFERENCE.

Do you guys meet late at night in a dark place? Secret handshake maybe?:}

or

Does obsessive-compulsive disorder mean anything to you?

ACMS,

From reading your posts it appears to me that you are a little stressed out, maybe working for Cathay does this to some people.

I would therefore like to recommend the following:

1. Pour yourself a large scotch, preferable a 15 year old single Malt.
2. Find a nice quiet room and turn the lights down low.
3. Turn the volume up on the computer and view this short video.
YouTube - Boeing 747 - RIAT 2007

Best Wishes for your speedy recovery.

No I have PRINCIPLES and I see that a lot of you mob in here DON'T.

well said discoveryman
 

And we can all help ACMS in his recovery by no longer contributing to this debate.

Apart from this last comment on it from me.

The person ACMS first attacked in starting this thread spent time on the AOA GC a few years back. ACMS's contribution to help his fellow pilots has been confined to his contributions in pprune.

oh so I didn't support the 49ers through extra contributions? must have dreamt that one

So I don't pay subs now and VOTE when required.!!! oh

So I didn't stay the course side by side with my colleagues through one of the worst Aviation industrial disputes the world has seen? ( Oz 89 )

So I didn't stay the course through the 2000 sign or be fired debacle in CX.

I've been in the AOA for 15 years and never missed a Vote or paying my subs.

What have you done?

ACMS,

"If I need to spell out what the Oasis crew have done to "help" our COS and the upgrades of my fellow Pilot's then you are DUMB."

Followed by

"Or just another selfish Pilot looking out for #1"

Priceless.

So you are demanding other pilots act in order to assist your own selfishness.

Oh god you guys do make me laugh.

NO IDIOT, I'm trying to get a UNITED Pilot group a bit like the one you have in KA. A UNITED Pilot group that can have a little power to NEGOTIATE contracts with the company.

I am against guys "Doing their own thing" with the company. As most adults are smarter than a 5th grader I'd expect this "concept" would be easily understood by you..

THEY ARE THE SELFISH ONES


If the membership decide to accept these guys and move on then the AOA is a democracy and I'd happily accept the decision of the members.

BUT.........that has not happened yet.

...ACMS, the problem is your incessant rantings against the A scale, who's only 'crime' was having joined the company before you. Why don't you be a good little boy, go and have a reveiw of your last couple of years worth of posts and come back when you can behave without coming across as a spoiled child. Not quite sure how you propose 'unity' when most of your posts are abusive of the one group who joined the company with a fair and unequivocal view of their worth. Have a think about it....

Grow up Apple seed.

Explain in plain English for us all to see HOW these guys joining doesn't do damage to our negotiating position.?
Explain to our junior colleages WHY their employment WAS NECESSARY in the first place?

Then explain to me WHY they accept ONLY $87,000 month with no housing allowance?

Explain how or why they are in a position to accept that?

Explain why they can't go to Korean Air, where the pay is better?

As a group only 1 ( that know of ) out of 30 wants to join the AOA,
so I will explain to you that that fact speaks volumes about their intentions toward their junior colleagues.

see we are going round in circles here.

I don't hate the A scalers, quite the opposite actually. We should ALL be on the A scale. But how is it that guys who have said they are worth being paid A scale for the last 20 years suddenly say "hey, I'm not worth A scale anymore, so pay me less than C scale, I DON'T CARE I'll do anything just to fly your Cathay Jet one more time...........yeah baby"

Do they have any pride? Any life at all?

I admire their desire to keep flying ( or keep away from the wife ) but hey...........don't RUIN our chance at the golden ring.

Take your considerable talents to another Airline, who knows you may teach them something.:D


Oh and did you know that all the over 55 extendees ( not the Oasis Pilot's )get to keep their original DOJ for staff travel purposes? TRUE, so next time you can't get a seat in the cabin or a crew seat then think about why this happens.

"As a group only 1 ( that know of ) out of 30 wants to join the AOA,
so I will explain to you that that fact speaks volumes about their intentions toward their junior colleagues."

I suspect this is because you're not speaking to them.

I know many more than 1 intend to join:}

ACMS Look back at your rantings and ask yourself if you're really intending to unite anyone. You're letting your jealousy of the 'A' scale group cloud your judgement. Get over it and let someone else talk - you've made your point - over and over again.
If someone is extended in this Company to stop us having to wet lease aircraft or even ground them, then too damned right he keeps his DOJ for Staff travel.
Bit of advice - never miss an opportunity to shut up.:ok:

Uh...Jagman...unfortunately he ALWAYS misses that opportunity...! :ok:

ARE YOU SERIOUS?:=:=:=:=:=:=:=

That must be a windup

You guys must be management? How could you say that???????????

Incredible you could think that way.

IT'S JUST ANOTHER WAY TO SCREW THE JUNIOR GUYS>

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY it shows how quite a few of the senior Pilot's think.:= :mad:

BusyB: so what's DELAYING their application then? are they waiting to see if they can claim their subs on their Tax!!!

Bring it on..............they can APPLY but we will object.

I hope they know that.

ACMS - Yes I'm quite serious. What we should all do is to just leave you to conduct this thread all on your own. You know, answer your own replies and accuse yourself of going around in circles. Oh wait!
You're already doing that!!??:ok:

ACMS ; you just don't get it, do you?
 

:*Reading this thread it appears that YOU will object not "we", certainly not me.

And this next sentence of your proves you really don't get it:

Because the damage was done when you (and the others) joined as B scalers. That was when the rot started and, I admit, continues today. But don't criticise others for what you did yourself. You need to forget the past, recognise the present and work for the future. In another thread you seem to realise that when you say we must UNITE going forward. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

So stop this ranting and start working for the future.http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Oh god here we go again.....................


Listen very carefully I am only going to say this once:-

you retirees and Oasis guys CAN come back and fly as long as:

1/ you accept the SAME pay and conditions as B scale
2/ you join at the BOTTOM of the Seniority list and ONLY accept legitimate promotions if we can't/wont accept them
3/ Bypass pay is then actually PAID correctly to ALL effected officers as per our COS.
4/ YOU DO IT THROUGH THE HKAOA

Simple really..........then you'd all be WELCOME back and we could all be ONE HAPPY FAMILY MOVING FORWARD.

Can't you see that you are being used by the Company to further their agenda. Which is further erode the T & C's of all current Pilot's ( and all other staff as well )
You might think you are doing the company a favour by helping them out in a shortage but you're only SCREWING US and playing into their hands.

Great

Let's allow these guys to come back, join the union and vote thru 65...

That will only screw FO's and SO's alike, not to mention what the direct entry FO's are doing. Ohhh and a basing - Forget it!!!!

And no....I have ZERO desire to work till 65. However with lost income from command regression - I may just have to.

It gets better and bet....

If we could only be this lucky.

iLUV - I bet he sais it more than once!

ACMS - I agree that when you're 55 you should do all the things you suggest. After all, when you joined the retirement age was 55 and you wouldn't want to screw your younger colleagues now would you. Long way away? Time moves fast and 55 is the old 45 they tell me. Try to relax. Your points are well made (or certainly should be by now - just look back at the thread - it's unique in the history of the Prune IMHO!)

Listen very carefully I'm only going to say this once:-



oops that's twice:ok:


MAYBE SOME NEED TO READ IT AGAIN?

A Scale did not object to B Scale
 

Please, I do wish people would speak the truth.
The A Scale community offered not to accept any pay rises for a number of years if the Company did not introduce B Scale.