828a, YOU are the problem we have in CX.
why aren't you in OUR union? you're obviously not from what you say.
The AOA has negotiated quite a few improvements to the Pilots contracts, and yes that means ALL PILOTS IN CX.

So how dare you imply that I'm ( and the AOA ) only interested in improving the COS of AOA members only. TOTAL BULLOCKS. And something that a person like you ( selfish, one for all and all for me ) does.

Standing by for your next pieces of BS.

ACMS,

bless you - you really aren't reading these posts fully - or - with an open mind are you? You have quoted my post not 828a's. Perhaps if you re-read my post you will see that the Y thousand people I am talking about, are actually all the 17,000 plus employees in CX - you know the ones that appear in the cockpit to feed you and listen to your cheap jokes, tell you where you are flying, what the weather will be like, put the food on board, put the SLF on the plane, put the fuel in the plane, kick the tyres, sell the tickets to the SLF, make your uniform, wash the skidmarks in your uniform, book your hotel, give you your expenses, arrange your housing, medical etc, etc - not just you drinking buddies that sit at the pointy end of the big metal flying thing!

And you're use of aggression above - confirms the attitude of a number of people in organised groups, as mentioned in my post:

If you further re-read my post - I like to think I am an individual, because if I was like everybody else, or everybody else was like you - what kind of world would it be? Well - there'd be a lot of pilots in Hong Kong - wouldn't there? As for being for myself - the only group I like to think I belong to is the human-race, there is no group bigger than that, is there? But I wouldn't use it as an idle threat like you:

So, after the nurse has been round to give you your bed-bath, and tucked you in with your bottle of San Miguel. Perhaps you could open your eyes and look around you, rather than having such a narrow view on the world.

Bless you ACMS, you are what makes discussions about human behaviour AND greed such fun! Please keep posting these gems.

Regards,

N1 Vibes

PS - do I have to say this again - re-read my posts - I'M NOT A PILOT.

828a, Captain TOGA,

I too will get back to you gent's soon. I'm just rushing out to join the AOA so that ACMS will love me a bit more!

Regards,

N1 Vibes

I just went over the posts again.

you wrote As I thought you were actaully a real Pilot and not just a jealous wannabee, I thought you were referring to the whole Pilot group ( 2,500 )and not the whole company.( 17,000 )
The others in this big company have their own Unions.
What pay rises have they had in the last 8 years then?

CX treat their whole workforce as an expendable number.

N1 Vibes,

In ACMSs defence it's a bit hypocritical of you to join a pilot's forum where the dominant topic is industrial and union matters and then post;

This isn't really a forum about the meaning of life and everything that accompanies it. Granted everyone plays their part in an airline, but be careful about being a non pilot joining a pilot's forum and then berating someone on the forum because of their opinion that is solely an issue amongst airline pilots. In fact if you "belong to the human race" as you so elequently put it, why are you wasting your time on this forum?? You really should be helping the poor and needy on your spare time.

Dragon69

- the title of this thread is "Defining Greed" - here's the first post just to remind you:

- pilots - are not mentioned until post 13, page 1, even then it was somebody moaning about the spelling and they used the less common description - "flight deck crew"

- unions - didn't get mentioned until post 81, page 5 - this must be a record for Fragrant Harbour. The unions AOA and AFAP were quoted.

If you really only joined pprune to talk about pilots and unions, then I suggest this thread is not for you - or did the thread title Defining Greed make you think it was a thread about pilots and unions?

As you put it so well - Pprune is actually mostly about AVIATION.

Regards,

N1 Vibes

PS - the reason I'm here? There appear to be quite a number of cases of consumerism, nimbyism, head-in-the-sand and self-delusion hereabouts.

you still haven't told us how many payrises the "other" staff at CX have received in the last 8 years?
Not to mention the nice little bits and pieces NR and the other chaps up there gave themselves.

ACMS

I say - what a lot of chest beating. Perhaps now that you have realised that I'm not a pilot, never have been a pilot, never wanted a career as a pilot and have never come onto the flight deck to tell a pilot what to do - that I'm most definitely not jealous of you.(glad you can now be bothered to read the boring old threads)

And that when talking in my posts about all employed at CX, that strangely it also means the people outside the pilot community.(well spotted, I'll use bigger letters, or bits of lego for you)

Nowhere in this thread has anyone actually told you, or anybody else how they should do their job. We are all professionals here, and peoples lives depend on the work that we do.(if you can prove this then I am willing to apologise - over to you)

Just to pick up on the fact you mentioned earlier about the AOA working for all pilots at CX. Because, it's a good job you left the AFAP - they only look after their own:

The role we have as a trade union is to protect and improve the conditions of employment for its members.

(Source AFAP Website)(by the way shouldn't that be our members?)

I'm sure it was a concious decision by you to join the AOA, who you say works for all pilots in CX (couldn't find a manifesto for the AOA, so have to take your undisputable word for it), even non memebrs. As you personally are so concerned for everybody in the pilot community - even the non-members - to quote you in post 86:

You say it in such a warm and welcoming way. I'm sure 828a is glad you're backing the AOA's free of charge negotiations for him.

Is it correct that anything that is negotiated by the AOA and is adopted by CX, is passed on to the whole pilot community by CX?

As for my obvious jealousy of you - you know whenever people ask me locally who I work for and I say CX - the first question they always ask if I'm a pilot - and do you know when I tell them that I am not a pilot - their attitude seems to almost change when I say it. Why is that? I personally can't answer because I'm too polite to ask them, oh and did I mention I'm not a pilot enought times before? Maybe ACMS you have had the opposite experience, tell me, how do people in Hong Kong react when you in particular tell them you are a pilot - I'm guesing they must be green with envy? Especially when you tell them that everybody else is jealous of you.(or is that only in your mind?)

Regards,

N1 Vibes

This has got 2 be the most boring thread ever.

N1 Vibes,

I was starting to suspect that you resent pilots for one reason or another and then a previous post by you made it all too clear!

At least one thing will not change since the dawn of aviation, the mutual feeling between pilots and engineers :}

Dead Head quite right! This thread should have been put to sleep "no pun intended" a long time ago.

Since we have some obtuse and off the wall conversation on this thread I thought I would add my penny's worth.

I imagine if Jane Austen were alive today and if she should read this thread she would write a book called 'Pride and Prejudice'. Seems like human frailty hasn't changed so much over time.

You cannot truly know someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Since N1 Vibes hasn't been a pilot and since ACMS et al haven't been professional engineers I think it a little prejudicial to be throwing insults around based on your own fears and misconceptions.

I do like hearing opinions from my non pilot friends; my pilot friends only tell me what I already know. Through my non-pilot friends I have come to accept I have one of the best jobs on the planet...I think Mark Wahlberg in the movie "Rock Star" had the best job;-) That is not to say that the job is perfect and could not be improved. But I have learnt that I should be grateful for my job and not denigrate others about their jobs. And I have long given up trying to glorify how hard it can be. No Lawyer or Barrister can justify to me how they can charge $1,000s per hour for their jobs - its not the work you are paid for but the experience that comes with it.

I better stop now or else I will lose ACMS's interest! ;-)

FWIW, not only have I seen movies on flying, read books on flying, but I even know what a Canard is and I am a member of the subsidiary to the AA, the AOA!

Just had to say 1 more thing.

YES, whatever the AOA negaotiate goes to ALL Pilots

That's one reason we are annoyed at those Pilots HANGING off OUR coat tails for free.

N1 Vibes:
Sometimes, and retirement comes to mind a new life in a new location becomes necessary due to circumstances dictated by common sense. This thing called common sense is not a product of the heart which means it should always be listened to. I agree that if one moves to a new location then it's the beginning of something untried which makes it all the more interesting.
All the best

828a

Dragon 69:
Your inference that I have a "keen fondness" for Hong Kong is perfectly correct. It's something that crept up on me during many happy years flying Cathay's heavy metal. Hong Kong is a vibrant city of life and energy and it makes memories that are to be cherished. How could one not fall in love with the Harbour, Star Ferry, morning coffee in the Pen, reading the SCMP, strolling around the peak, exploring Plover Cove and Tai Mei Tuk, the outlying islands, the lunchtime fashion parade in Central, public transport everywhere, the peak tram, Swindons etc etc Do I have to continue the list is endless.
Why the bases are full is because the "Base fillers" are nothing more than childhood home seekers who take the easy way out as the other thing is too daunting. I call them "flatlanders" and they live their lives in the foothills. You may care to reflect on something that Plutarch said: "The measure of a man's life is the well spending of it and not the length". All the best.
828a

ACMS:
You really are a worry. If you must be rude to N1 Vibes so as to garnish your ego and feelings of "pilots only please" then I suggest you deal with me. I've had a little expereince with people like you. You would not dare to have raised your voice on my flight deck.

828a

P.S.
Captain TOGA: I will be with you shortly.
Hiro Nakimura: Welcome, some new blood is needed.

828a,

Interesting to say the least! So let me sum up your attitude, because I love Hong Kong then everyone else has to as well! I wonder if Plutarch was as narrow minded as you.

Dragon 69

finally - the nub arises. I am glad to say that myself and colleagues throughout the industry are performing tasks and making decisions that, with respect, keep both the pax and your good selves in the pilot community safe everyday. I've lived and worked knowing that responsibility for the safety of others lives, since I first worked in aviation at 16 years old. I am not the sort of person who broadcasts this responsibility around, mostly you will find many engineers keeping it to themselves.

When you were 16 years old, did you perform anything that affected the lives of hundreds of people and accept the responsibility for it?

I also acknowledge that their are hundreds of other roles in this industry and other industries that also take this and hihger responsibility, quite often for less reward (thats respect and financial), and I hope that I respect the pressure that it brings.

Regards,

N1 Vibes

N1 Vibes,

I hope you didn't think that I was disrespecting or belittling your carreer as an engineer. I don't believe I ever implied that. Your job is no less and no more important than mine, but pilots and engineers have always had a love and hate relationship, it's just the way it is. Unlike ATY I don't put myself on a pedestal because I am a pilot, and nor should you because you happen to be an engineer (not that you ever implied it). In reality we are all capable of achieving anything we want, be it a doctor, engineer, pilot, etc.

My initial post was about you berating another pilot for posting his opinions on a PILOT's forum.

Chiang Kai Shek
 

Captain TOGA:
You asked "What kind of a man was Chiang Kai Shek"? I know something about him and I consider him as an egoistical traitor and a man of greed (which is what we are discussing) . He was a traitor because he failed at a critical time to oppose the Japanese and his greed shows up in the gold bullion and antique treasures he stole from China when he fled to Formosa (Taiwan). There was only one thing good about Chiang Kai Shek and that was his beautiful, svelte English speaking Wellesey College educated wife Soong Mei Ling. Without her he would have been nothing and why she stayed with him through thick and thin is a question that the most knowledgeable of scholars can't answer.
Your summary of events is perfectly correct but it does not take into account the land distribution effect because it was this that induced the peasants to defect to Mao Tze-tung in their millions and thus bring about the defeat of Chiang Kai Shek. ..... Your thoughts.....All the best.

828a

So.....back to greed:

From this website: http://www.geocities.com/athens/atla...124/money.html

"Money is an unnatural substance that makes you feel good if it's supplied in high quantities. It changes the habits of humans.
In a sort, money became the new global god to be worshipped.


The most interesting feature of money is financial gravity:

• Every unit of money has its own financial gravity.
• The field of financial gravity gets stronger when more units of money combine.
• Larger bodies of money have stronger forces to attract more money.

It works like the solar system:
A stable system evolved from individual units of matter controlled by the gravity of a central large object.
Money will take the same way, the central largest pool of money could be the world government controlling a planetary system of large enterprises through the force of financial gravity. All minute or uncontrollable bodies of money will inevitably end up in a larger body. This is a typical monetary system for wealth creation.

It means, the amount of money common people hold will be more and more insignificant - making it easier for commerce to enslave people. "

And that includes PILOTS AND ENGINEERS:ok:

ACSM
 

Acms,

who you are shouts so load its difficult sometimes to hear what you are trying to say.

N1 it appears the issues with this site is its misleading title, Professional Pilots Rumour...the word professional here seems to be misleading.

Your posts have been thoughtful and illuminating and many have enjoyed reading them. A refreshing break from some of the whinging and mud slinging that seems to go on here.

This thread was an enjoyable discussion that was sabotaged by some ahem angry misoninists who happen to be pilots and whew hew members of the AOA. It would be unfortunate if all pilots and AOA members are judged based on these few eggs.

I wonder what is the role of the internet in many a lonely pilot's life? I wonder what indeed their wives, girlfriends, kids would say about it? It seems to be a common phrase.. "then he comes home from work and sits at the computer all night" It maybe that this "virtual" of the internet has become an addictive pattern for many of our colleagues and for others it seems to be some for of reaching out and communicating sharing ideas etc.

Some of what is projected on these sites offer a fascinating insight into the anger and lonliness of many.

For one I hope you N1 etc remain here contributing your thoughs and ideas and those who don't like it can lump off onto the tabloid threads of which there are many.

volarecantare,

Would you rather have the whinging and mud slinging in the cockpit?? The fact that the majority are civil and proffesional towards each other in the cokpit is indicative of our proffesionalism. If there is a bit of mud slinging on an anonymous forum, well big fu:mad:g deal! Are you really that sensitive?

The other great thing about an anonymous forum is that you can post here pretending to walk the moral high ground, as you often do, and pretend that your existence is much more valuable and exciting than the rest, but the reality might be quite contrary, only you know!

Well that obviously hit a nerve there. Maybe it was the part you didn't refer to.

You say the Majority of pilots are professional and gentlemanly in the cockpit, maybe that is true so could it be that the minority who are not are the ones slithering venom on the website as well? You could be right!

Seems to me that if such resentment and anger exists that it at best it is only being thinly disguised in the cockpit and out.

Are you suggesting that this site plays the sacred role of allowing the minority of unprofessional pilots to vent rage bitterness and sometimes unsolicited attack so that they are free to transform into gentlemen in the cockpit? For that sort of anger management maybe a councilor would be a better investment in time.

As to my sensitivity yes I do feel concerned about some of the attacks that happen on this forum to often known individuals who are unlucky enough to be involved in incidents and to anyone who tries to have a discussion beyond the limits of those low minded attacks whinging and whining. Where you get the leap from that to the strange suggestion that I feel more valuable or what was it.... exiting than you well, only you know the answer to that..

So let see, being positive or happy now is a crime on this site too and its true Raison d'etre is a spittoon basin for otherwise "professional" pilots to offload venom so they can try to be professional in the cockpit. Mudslinging is also acceptable to you on an anonymous forum? Interesting theory Dragon.

Lets hope the day never comes when you have a bad day at work that you and your family feel its ok to have mud slung at you here. I do not- and if you were honest, nor do you.
Thanks for the heads up.

This thread was titled " Greed "

Are all of your attention spans so limited that you can't even stick to the subject? Enough already with the thread drift. Take your arguments about who is more unprofessional elsewhere. You are spoiling the one thread that was a bit of fun.

You guys are just way too easy to bait. Must be a sign of your castration by the company that you have to come over here and try and prove your manhood through pointless arguments we have all heard a thousand times.

Ok once you ladies have finished your philosophical discussion and finished exchanging cooking recipes, maybe we can then get back to some pertinent issues. :ugh:

dragon69

just to pick up on the points referring to non-pilots reading the threads on pprune. The reason most engineers come to pprune is to read the Tech Log and Technicians/Engineers sections, and there is always a good amount of sensible, interesting and intelligent conversation going on in there. Then I come to read the FH forum to see what makes CX pilots tick and there's enough here to give an idea. Though a generalisation is not as good as individual cases, there seem to be A LOT of money related issues discussed. Not so many about other aspects of CX/KA life.

Is this related to greed? I think - YES. Therfore a thread related to greed is very valid here. What is it they say about the truth - it hurts right?

Regards,

N1 Vibes

proffesional towards each other in the cokpit is indicative of our proffesionalism

God help us. Being a Cathay Pilot a profession?

N1 Vibes,
you have certainly found your mark. Burn them all that's what I say :ok: