After the Emirates Brief, A perspective.
 

Just fresh from the brief and I will make this brief. The presentation was professional. I went thinking that I wanted to fly for Emirates and left thinking thank god I fly for Cathay. After listening to pay, conditions and living in Dubai I almost wanted to kiss PW and NR on the 3rd and 9th floors respectively. A LIQUIOR LICENSE, WWWWWWWHHHHHAAAATTTTTTT??????
So I will say this GUYS/GALS WE DON'T HAVE IT THAT BAD!!!!!!!! Flame away if you need to but for those of us that were there; YIKES! I think I get it now.:p

Good presentation
 

I thought they provided a very well balanced perspective. No doubt some of their pilots are suffering similar disillusions as we are, but on the whole the offer was realistic.
If you are keen to find an alternative, then it is worth phoning Korean Airlines recruiting department as well. The main benefit here is the basing, and they will fly you to work in Seoul with 11 days off at home base per month. The pay is very good - they are expanding. It is similar to what CX would pay on a base, and a viable alternative if your preferred base port is full.
For more details:
Direct Personnel International Ltd.
Tel : +353-1-8138400
Fax: +353-1-8138401
e-mail : [email protected]
and :
http://www.directpersonnel.com/en/ht...ecruitment.asp

don't worry to much bout the liquor license every non muslim gets one after filling out a simple form. Crew gets a discount at the airport duty free which will be well below market price or otherwise a short drive to hole in the wall will take care of the problem.

Shame about the Ts & Cs
 

I agree with Saturn, I walked in with my completed online application and left with it still in my bag. Where do they think they are going to get the crews for the 100 aircraft on order and the 100 or so to be announced at the coming airshow in Dubai. Lots of gloss but no substance. Having been through Dubai for a number of years its not a cheap place to live contrary what the HR lady was trying to tell us, it used to be but not anymore.

So unfortunately I dont think CX and KA have much to worry about losing guys to Emirates unless their package improves substantially. They also fail to realise that having a company assigned house is not the same as choosing your own pad where you want to live and then have the company pay for it.

The search continues .....

thanks for the headsup guys and gals, i was planning on heading down to the brief but i think i will sit back and take a deep breathe and have a think about it first after what i have read. I have looked at the numbers for there pay etc and having been to dubai many times online, things arent getting cheaper over there, plus couple that with the number of accidents and deaths that occur each hour of everyday, i am safer with a honkie taxi!!!

hump-OUT

Balancing act
 

You need to look at the pros and cons of both CX and EK and work out what is important to you. You will get more money(after tax remember) etc in DXB but you can't get basings. You are closer to EUR but further away from Aus.

On money and time to command EK wins. On clean air EK wins. On flexibility of basings(so far!) CX wins.

I have a friend who has worked for both airlines. He said management is similar but training is superior in DXB - ie, they actually pass you if you pass your 4bar - no star chamber stuff.

We have pollution and a decade longer to command. They have more traffic accidents. Their education/housing allowance isn't taxed, ours is.

Depends what is important to you I guess!

numbers??
 

So after all the hoo haa this week, how many guys actually turned up???

50-60 I would say today. Some in and out so hard to get a true count.

Maybe 10+ got interviews (I am sure all those who were interested did).

Again, money was worse, but perhaps made up by tax free ness of it..

I am re watching the video they handed out now.

Video??? Does anyone in HKG still own a video recorder? Did they give you choice of vhs or beta or "super 8"??? :)

I meant DVD..Mea Culpa...

And yes we have our own DVD. Looking forward to the next upgrade meeting when we review it.

The Management.

Surely getting a command in somewhere around 3 years....and getting it on merit and ability instead of the "at Cathay we don't spoon feed, ie train, and you earn your Cathay Command blah blah....." as opposed to 10 years would make up for any shortfall in equivalent payscales? If you were close to, or already had, a command at Cathay then apart from slightly cleaner air and an exciting drive to work there wouldn't be much point leaving. But if you were near the bottom with relatively high previous experience, with close to ten years to an attempt at a Cathay command and presently barely QLd on hospital corners, surely it would be worth the jump?
And could the relationship between the management and its workforce really be any worse than it is here?
It is certainly worth some consideration.
Anyway, where did I leave those white sheets.....the blue ones never fit....

:E

repeating myself yet again
 

You are at least 30% better off in after tax dollars after 10 years in EK vs CX. Assuming command after 5 years in EK(anticipated to be 3-5years) you will be earning 34% more after tax than at CX at the 10 year mark. This does not include ERP so it is likely to be closer to 40% more. Your career earnings will also be 34%+ more at EK assuming a similar cost of living. Remember that utilities are free, limo pickup and dropoff, housing and education allowances untaxed.

Bottom line, EK is well ahead of CX. And there is no reason to believe that there will not be another pay rise next May as there has been in every year this decade. ALso their increments are 3% not 2% like the new improved CX command scale.

There is more to life than money....but if money is your 'thing' then EK leaves CX way behind.

Most posters here are looking at the here and now.

Extrapolate the changes in CX over the past 10 years for the same period into the future, do the same for EK, then have a think about it.

Ahh, more pollution in Hong Kong and more construction in Dubai, am I close?:eek::}

a numerical challenge
 

OK I will...based on last 5 years and then doubled, CX salary would go up 0% and EK salary would double;-)

I read somewhere that EK had 102 aircraft in May - same as we had last Dec. I also read they have over 100 aircraft on order. Last I checked we had 29 ordered for delivery from Jan this year until some time in 2010+. So the less than 5 years to command assumption looks safe at EK.

Apparently RA65 will accelerate time to command which is handy as with an extra 500 geriatrics hanging around over the next 10 years we will need it.

I believe we have less commands planned next year than we had this year but not 100% certain. With RA65 we need about 50-60 less command courses per year(assuming 100% pass rate) if all the A scalers extend!

Good point jtr. CX pilot conditions are static, EK's are dynamic.

With any job you need to look at the macro economics of the company's situation if you are looking to the future. EK is the airline of an energetic government who are developing their country with vast strategic aims. CX is tied to a HKG government that has no power over the development of aviation in Hong Kong, either because of entrenched interests or mainland control.

One point that is often overlooked when searching for a pilots job is, what is the perceived position of a pilot in that company, and that country. For instance, when in Taiwan recently and a parent wanted to take a photo of the captain next to his four year old son, the comment from my new to CX trainee was "This is amazing, they treat us with such respect, this does not happen in my country." A true Borat moment.

Also, what is the perceived position of a pilot in the company? In companies where the Director of Flight Operations is not a pilot, you may find that pilots are treated as low grade labour, and our professionalism is either mis-understood or deliberately undervalued.

So many things to consider.

I really enjoyed the chap asking about the command upgrade pass rate...they almost didn't understand the question.. after getting a grip on what was actually being asked the reply was 95% atleast......

From the DFO's weekly news letter:
Does anyone actually know what the upgrade figures were for 06 & 07 respectively? Would be interesting to know the reality.

Taxed Allowances
 

How very balanced :yuk:.

It cannot be too comfortable having Emirates on the doorstep recruiting. Whatever the motivations of the posters above it is a sign of the times. At some point somebody will have to pay more to fill the cockpits.

Anyway, back to some complaining:

Tell me NC, how much tax will I pay the HKG taxman for my allowances? Couple of kids at school and using the housing to buy a concrete box?

............And how much will I pay in Dubai?

Milly