Traffic,
forgot to say, your sympathy thing(between sh#t and syphilis)...brilliant;-) Hope I can quote you without paying copyright fees!

asianeagle...no!
It's a long story...simple version. A NTC came out. They sought clarification of their situation. They were squeaky clean at the time. Over the next few months 2 things happened...their situation changed which caused them to drift into a grey area(unintentionally)....and the CX position drifted to also include more of this grey area into the 'verboten' zone. Did they deserve to be fired? In my opinion, absolutely NOT. I am pretty cut and dried about things...if I had been in charge of their D+G, I would have made them pay back some money. Thats all.

I think CX wanted to make an example...as they did with the 49ers.

Like I said, CX can be incredibly uncaring and harsh as a corporation, but incredibly caring on an individual level. That is why you get such extreme and opposite posts on this website about them!

cpdude
If I recall correctly it was via a notice to crew. Pretty much as Crunchero has said.

If you need to take compassionate leave because of a death in the family or you are under huge stress because of a divorce etc then you aren’t fit for work. This was told to me by someone in flight ops. Go see your doctor and get a certificate to say you are sick and unfit for work.

I agree with you Titan and that is the policy I operate under these days. But, you shouldn't have to go that way and the company should be more considerate to the needs of the individual. This is how you create a harmonious environment at very little if any cost!:)

CX just hasn't figured this out yet but maybe soon they will. There is always hope!;)

Not until a certain General Manager hangs up his Mont Blanc.

My "were they warned" question was a genuine question not a wind up by the way. Having said that, it seems that you need to identify the right person to talk to with these problems, PC in the 747 office comes to mind:ok:, and things more often than not work in your favour.
Deal with the wrong person and :ugh:!! TP :8in Airbus office comes to mind!

Dont even think about trying to deal with people in crew control, "CANNOT" comes to mind.

Hey Hostile, with amount of cr@p you keep posting, you must surely be a wind up. If not, go home so the juniors all move a step closer to command!

English mr fawlty, I learn it from a book..
 

The original intent of this thread was to discuss whether anyone was happy with CX. As usual we have been taken off task. I think it is fair to say that a good measure of satisfaction is the resignation rate? YOu may disagree with that assertion! Anyway, I believe about 40 or so pilots have left in the last 2 years....I mean 2005/06. (Obviously I am ignoring normal retirees!) So about 1+% per year! I have no numbers for departures this year but anecdotally I have heard it is higher than normal!

Generally, most departures are due to Cat D, ill health, wife - job, children's health etc etc issues. It is hard to pin down consistent causes.

If you ask me about CX, obviously I will tell you to come and work here. I am happy here and I have chosen to stay here. If you were to ask Hostile 23 he would tell you not to work here for his own reasons. What I find annoying is that, being a very left brained person, I can have my mind made up and still change my mind, if new evidence convinces me otherwise. Slander, vitriol, abuse in no way makes me reconsider my view, yet posters on PPRUNE seem to think they will make a break through using these techniques. There is no surer technique for closing a door than to yell abuse through it!

Personally I would like the views of the hostile 23's etc on PPRUNE to balance my optimistic view of life at CX...but I also really wish it didn't involve the vitriol, personal abuse etc. I accept that it must be hard for H23 to NOT be angry given the choice to leave takes incredible courage and goes against incredible peer pressure. So H23..contrary to your assertion about my being 'slighly condescending' a while ago, I wasn't! A valid position will bear any scrutiny...an invalid position will bear none.

H23, this is one of those situations where we are both right and wrong...I am not wrong in wanting to stay and you are not wrong in wanting to leave.

In complete non condescendingleyness;-) let potential new joiners know your reasons against joining CX without all the other stuff...not helpful. Accept the fact that some people can't take you saying that 'you should leave' as they are insecure. I will continue to tell people why I like it here, you continue to tell people why you are leaving.

Good luck in your future,
cheers

I am quite happy here and most of the North Americans I know are also happy here.
Some of it depends on you, if you want to live at home, don't take a job overseas. If you want everything to be the same, don't come here. Some things are different.
I live in HK for about $1100. USD a month for a nice apt. I don't want to be in DB and there are many many other places to live. It actually costs me less to live in HK than in the US. I don't have a car here and until I rented one in the US recently wasn't aware that gas prices were ridiculous again.
I don't think being a 727 flight engineer in the US was any more exciting than being an SO, but most pilots had to do it at one time.
There are some people who are not happy here. Perhaps they will divert some of their energy spent pissing and moaning online to something constructive, like finding a different job where they can be happy (if that is possible). Other wise I find myself with the same feelings as ACMS and others, don't let the door hit you in the a** on your way out.
CX is not perfect, but neither are other airlines. If you want perfection, get out of aviation.
To answer the training question, it takes a long time for initial training as they expect you to do 25 secotrs or so of line training. That takes a bit more time than on a 737. You also get plenty of time off. Otherwise training is about the same amount of time as other air carriers for intial hires.
Never turn down an interview, go and see for yourself.

Numero, I can tell you what made ME not very happy, and that was being openly threatened by a Chief Pilot (who I had never met before) that he is in a position to ruin my flying career, not only at Cathay, but for life. Hardly anyone with any pride in their profession, self respect or belief in their abilities will accept such abuse. Very same person frequently seen downtown at dinner time, with a select bunch of “careerminded” pilots clinging to his heel.

The whole experience was just not right and contrary to all the values I believed in. Why I wasn’t a happy Cathay pilot? Stupid question really, I blame it on taking part in an anti bullying programme in my college days… designed to enable us taking a place in this world as responsible grown ups.

Very happy again now, having returned to a normal airline job and sanity. To all those judgemental die hards out there I can only say that I never had a problem before, or after CX. Out of the 100 or so pilots I know on a personal level, the vast majority are NOT happy with their lot, feel mistreated and would rather be out, but find it hard giving up the dollars, social status, seniority or converting a licence/type… they end up having to endure in an unpleasant climate and remain in longterm limbo with a faint hope it will get better one day. But then, I am just a notoric malcontent who associated with my likes…

That particular chief pilot wasn't the "rambling" IR by any chance was it?

CX is what you make of it, but it is a great place to work. Everybody is very professional and you get a ton of time off and great aircraft. Work hard, it is worth it.

Cruising Speed
 

Just for balance, what put you in in a position that you should be so threatened by a CP who you had never met before, was it in the bar or in his office?

There are many happy pilots at Cathay. They are happy doing the job they do ; but it has to be said that they often do not have any affection for the company they work for.

James,


A very true picture you have posted my friend.

I enjoy the flying, the days off, the holidays, the money and even Hong Kong but I don't enjoy CX.

Parabellum,

I don’t intend to internalise a corporate problem by entering a senseless discussion on location or reasons. What happened back then is uncalled for in most any circumstances.

I have meantime moved on in life, but when the Numero is truly oblivious to why there are quite a few people not happy at CX, he is entitled to another perspective.

600rvr
 

You are either an apprentice knight of the star table or a member of the communist party,............... hang on, they're the same really..............
You have got to be kidding right? "Work hard, it's worth it". You are obviously swire trained in the communications department as well! That would have to be the most stupid thing I have ever heard anyone say on this forum. Just please tell me exactly "what" is worth working so hard for at CX?:confused:

Cruising speed,
thats me, oblivious! Don't forget to mention that I am probably egocentric, and lets face it, sociopathic too!

You on the other hand are simply egotistical!

Yes....
 

"ski lodge in whistler, two race horses, a yacht, plane, houses in hkg and oz and he still bitched and whinged."

This guy would have to be an A scaler, won Mark 6 or inherited a bunch of coin. Or else he is up to his eyeballs (and beyond) in debt.

Simply put, there is NO WAY any new staff would ever be able to afford anything close to all of this. Reality bites.

There are certain types of people who will be happy at CX, and there are types who will not be. You have to decide what type of person you are and where you fit. Take a long close look at yourself and ask yourself these questions.

If I were lied to at a job interview would I be happy to accept less than what I thought I was getting? Two trains of thought - hell no - I was lied to, I want what I was promised. Or - well I know its not what I thought it was but it still aint bad here.

If I saw wrongdoing or ill treatment of a follow professional, would I be willing to say something or keep my head down and be thankfull it is not me?

If I knew the company lied to me, could prove it boyond doubt but they would not listen, including the HR personell, would I be able to just turn the other cheek.

If I knew the company went out of their way to not pay me the benefits I had worked for and was contracted to, could I ignore this?

If I worked in an environment of threat, in a country which has no worthy recourse to the law, how would I feel?

If you can honestly say you are such a hard nut type that these things would not affect you and you can live like this and be happy and at peace with yourself then go and join CX. If you have any sort of conscience, where you like to see yourself and fellow workers treated with dignity and respect, then there will be a hundred other jobs for you out there that will be far more suitable than CX.
They are a very nasty set of people, interested in cash and cash alone. They are effectively 25% owned by the human rights loving chinese government through thier commercial arm CATIA. The civil aviation department (incidentally also a chinese government office) are pro Cathay no matter what they do or how they do it. Someone in CX raises their head above the parapit (maybe to defend a colloeague from wrongdoing etc) and thats it - you are out.

There is no H&S laws to speak of. This company does what it likes when it likes with no consequence as it has the backing of the goverment itself to operate like this. If you have another option (any option) take it, otherwise get something from them for nothing and leave. They have done it to many people so turn the tables.

A very happy to be ex employee. Life is good since I no longer work for the green scum LOL

"...the vast majority are NOT happy with their lot, feel mistreated and would rather be out, but find it hard giving up the dollars, social status, seniority … they end up having to endure in an unpleasant climate and remain in longterm limbo with a faint hope it will get better one day."

Sounds a lot like the situation at many US airlines these days.

geldap
 

Well said my friend, absolutely spot on. May the pro Cathay types suffer in their jocks!!