fo/fo's sacked?
 

Does anyone know what happened to the two senior fo's that were living together, did one get sacked or both? One male and one female?
(fairly recently)

From which company?

...and why do you want to know?

From cx.
Strange question, underpants. This is not a case of "schade freude", just heard a rumor and want to confirm it.

oasis: "schadenfreude" not schade freude

enschuldigung! I stand corrected....

So this was just a rumor then?

entschuldigung! very good. why do you speak german?
no I don´t think it was a rumor. with sacked I´m not sure, I think they are not sure.
BUT I heard they have to pay back the full amount of the housing assitance.

My german is terrible, I wouldn't last long at Lufthansa!
I hope the fo's can pay the difference back and keep their job.

cheers,

Oasis

I cannot confirm but I have heard they have been sacked and are under appeal.
What I find annoying is that CX taxes housing allowance to stick to the strict letter of the law. This couple, and many others, have also stuck to the strict letter of the law....and they get fired!? There is consistency for you!
I hope the AOA gets involved with this to protect them....

I wonder how many others are considered "in breach" of these housing rules.
Maybe i am too... you would hope that cx gave them the benefit of the doubt and gave them a warning before the cull?
I think they were members, but not sure, AOA should be able to do something...

Yea, what consistency, but maybe they wanted to "set an example", they love to treat us like little British schoolboys.

It's a shame too that there seems to be no way find out if someone in cx is leaving or retiring anymore (I think it used to say this in the old crews news, the one you could write to cx with questions), except through the old rumour mill.

Whine whine, love it or leave it bla,bla i know.

cx sux sometimes

Rorting the housing allowance is not new and has resulted in the sacking of at least one captain before.

They were warned
 

I've just flown with friends of the sacked FO's
They were warned around a year ago through a letter to all crew from the GMA regarding this exact situation "not being acceptable and any person doing it could face the sack" ( or words to those effect ). They chose to ignore it saying "it doesn't effect us"
They lived together and had a family together.( as proved by a private investigator the company hired )
I believe the male FO rented a place which CX paid for, in which they all lived.
The female bought a place which CX paid the mortgage on, then they rented it out. tripple dipping it seems?
I feel really sorry for them being sacked, maybe a bit harsh? They could have paid the money back as in another case earlier.
But they were warned by the GMA and their friends but chose to keep there heads in the sand.
I hope they get atleast one job back on appeal.
Good luck to them
Cheers.

Actually ACMS your information is completely incorrect and really you should think twice and check your facts before posting such accusations.

Obviously your F/O friend is not a friend of theirs!

I've flown with 3 guys that know both ST and JR quite well. All 3 FO's had the same story on different days. If I'm wrong ( and I hope I am ) then please point out exactly where?
They were living together and BOTH getting rent or mortgage assistance which is not allowed.
As I said I hope they both or at least one get their jobs back.
I also read the letter from the GMA quite a while ago, it seemed quite clear to me at the time.
So what's the real story then ay?

I dont think its in there best interests at the moment, sorry

Fair enough.
Good luck to them.

Yes Hotdog..Doug his own grave.

Double dipping only because the company cannot stand a couple making out well off of housing. They are not doing anything unfair. They are both collecting what every other pilot gets. Only difference is that they live in the same house. Why should they not both be entitled to housing ? Is it not part of our COS ? Why should they be elligible for it while dating but not once married ?

An arbitrary unfair policy IMHO.

thats actually a good point, five green!

I agree... although I believe they weren't even married...

Lets get them on the same fleet, roster them together and force them to share accommodation down route! And whilst we are at it, they could share laundry allowance as well. Could up load less bedding for the bunk too, its all win win for the company, they should be encouraging it not punishing?

Five Green said 'They are both collecting what every other pilot gets.'

The four hundred Locally Employed Pilots at Cathay Pacific Airways on a Hong Kong Base receive $0 Housing Allowance.

So what you said is not true.

The Locally Employed pilots do exactly the same job as the Expat Pliots, so they are working to pay the Housing Allowance of Expat Pilots.

To complain about paying tax on housing, or not being able to fiddle the system when the rules are clear is a bit rich if you ask me.:ugh:

Not true. On reaching CN rank, all LEP's receive a housing allowance (as senior managers in the comapany, everyone, irrespective of CoS, receives this allowance.)

Not true.

This is not a Housing Allowance, but a Special Allowance.

And it is only 24k, less than a year 3 S/O receives.:=

The Local Pilots don't get a housing allowance because....................................................t hey are local Pilots
I don't get a housing allowance on a base either. Nor do I get travel allowance( and a lot of HKG expats don't get that either ), 13th month, Priority 4 FOC's etc etc. Because I'm not an expat living in HKG.
Not really a hard thing to come to grips with.
The Local Captains get 24,000 month, which is extra money on top of their salary, call it what ever you like.
what????????????

Pot stiring
 

Col.:

You are right to be upset but do not take it out on fellow pilots. Put the blame where it belongs....on the company.

Also do not try and justify one wrong by holding up another.

FG

I remember reading a newsletter Nigel put out called Remuneration and Benefits back in 2000/1. Basically there wasnt a pilot in the company that isn't hard done by. There is nothing to be gained from attacking each other.

What I find annoying about this housing issue is that they were a de facto couple..I believe they had kid/s? Yet try getting benefits for a de facto spouse with CX...CANNOT! So how is it rorting the system if two unmarried individuals live together and collect 2 lots of allowances. Maybe we should ban pilots getting involved with other pilots...or anyone else in HKG that gets any sort of housing benefit...or travel benefit...or medical benefits.

Now if they were truly renting out the 2nd place...well, that was stupid. I hope they weren't...both good people and would be a shame for them to have to leave becuase of of managements arbitrary interpretation of rules!

They were definately not renting out a place that CX was funding, that has not even been suggested by management.

He was renting ( ie not making a cent ) and she had a mortgage on another place which whilst pregnant was staying with him

Question - How many of you have stayed with mates ect whilst having your new pad reno'd- thats what they were both fired for

I can see this can be a nice topic of discussion for the next flight forum.
Watch those sparks fly!!!

You might also be interested to know she was fired on her FIRST day back at work after maternity leave!!!! interesting hey

That is their “Right to Manage”. One day this interpretation, next day that interpretation. Just depends on how it works for them on the day.

Unfortunately, the two pilots are been made examples.

Just demonstrates that Cathay Pacific Airways preferred method of discipline is “Termination”. Termination is justified from “throwing peanuts” to “working to rule”.

Why do we have Discipline and Grievance procedure? It is rarely used. Was it used in this case?

Just a reminder, giving up a job in your home country for Cathay Pacific Airways can end at any moment.

Another very nasty chapter unfortunately and tragic for the young family, I wish them all the best and hope they will be able to sort out the mess.

A nightmare for the individuals, but also very bad for the company reputation. The disgusting behaviour displayed by the managers involved is in total contradiction to the companies stated aspiration to be “the most admired airline in the world” and just serves to continually let down and disillusion its workforce, not exactly what you’d want to be exposed to for a lifelong career. Wonder if it will EVER change. :yuk:

Point above well made, that’s why Cathay pays above industry average.
(It is what you call a health, career and morale risk premium)

Word around Flight Ops is a certain GM is ducking for cover over this one!!

Industry Standard
 

Are we really paying that much above industry standard anymore ?

FG

CX salary is a good industry average, and somewhat better than what I earn now, but I guess there are other considerations not so easily quantifiable…

I now have considerably less cost than I had in Hong Kong.
I fly more, i.e. landings per DAY than the average CX pilot gets in a whole month.
I fly the airplane I actually enjoy flying on an everyday basis.
I fly daytime only on a stable roster and I am home most nights which means I feel good in my free time.
I am secure from being subjected to arbitrary bullying by my employer and I no longer have to tolerate this happening to my friends and peers.
I actually like and respect my managers, as they lead and motivate by example.
I enjoy turning up for work, being myself and having a good day with my colleagues.
I feel although my airline has its own acute problems that I am a valued part of a more holistic organisation which fosters rather than represses team spirit, a big problem for me in Hong Kong.

All non monetary rewards and perhaps non-essential to some out for a widebody job and a big paycheck, but part of my personal equation.

To the little family who will struggle this Christmas I sincerely hope that they will cope with what lies ahead and move on to a more secure future. To the managers responsible, although highly unlikely, I hope that they will be held accountable.:=

@CruisingSpeed,

do you mind telling for who you are flying now? Maybe PM me if you don´t feel like putting it here.

Thanks

Wombat, I'm not sure you know what you are talking about? I was A scale and bought my own property that CX paid for three times over in rent allowance. I wasn't cheating, not like some of the guys who came to a sticky end by claiming the maximum rent allowance and living rent free by shacking up with a "friend".

What I am talking about is very specific, and clearly contrary to the intent of the allowance.

I am talking about Captains who utilize the "Rental Allowance" for Captains scheme which is currently AAK for a mortgage vice utilizing the "Owner Occupier" scheme which only BBK a month. They do this by "leasing" from an entity they legidly have no connection to.

But you know what, I am going to remove myself from this conversation. The stakes are too high. It's easy to throw mud about two lowly Fo's, but an entirely different thing to question the senior folks within the company.

Good afternoon.