DEC's for CX Cargo?
 

Dudes.

Is the suggestion on a Middle East thread about CX Cargo hiring DE Captains on the freighter true?

Checked the company website's Careers link, but nothing showing.

I guess that says it all really; no.

Nonetheless, I thought I'd ring the bell here, see if anyone answers.

Not trying to wind you good people up, so if you have been, please just ignore my well intentioned post and get on with enjoying your life.

4PW's

The CoS that all CX pilots currently operate under forbids the recruitment of DE Capt's. The company would not do it, as it would be a clear breach of contract.

Nuff said :ok:

Not quite "Nuff said"
They've advertised recently for F/O slots on the freighter with "rapid command". If you joined the company today with a shed load of experience on the Classic and took a couple of brave pills you could probably start an F/O course and switch it to a command course if everything was going OK. The seniority for command on the Classic is zero so as soon as they're willing to give you a go you could find yourself doing a course.
There are many reasons why I wouldn't recommend this course of action, do a search on this forum under classic or freighter and I'm sure you'll find them!
Good luck

Hmph. Thought so. The ME thread's assertions are a crock. Like NW states, nuff said. Thanks for the replies.

Since when has cx cared about "breach of contract"?

So there is no truth to the rumour that there are guys getting hired on the freighter as F/O and training from the LHS?

Not on the freighter so I wouldn't know, but that is how the "story" goes

One of the returning 49ers did but I don't think anyone new to CX has done so yet.

actually 2 49'ers. F/O in the morning, command course by the afternoon. Both aced it.

Both were ex-Captains at CX and 49'ers. IE. Special case!

Good on 'em.

They earned the position.

CX don't have a DEC program per se, which is probably a good thing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHA and not even April's fools day yet...

For what base? North America, Europe.....?

Don't believe that CX is hiring DEC for CX brand flying. Air Hong Kong...yes, Dragon Air (Freighter)...probably, CX...no!

Check again
 

Dabrat:

Tell your buddy to double check that because things are not what they seem. If in fact he is comong to CX and not Air hong Kong or Dragon, then he should know the risk of not making it through is while not extreme something to consider.

Cheers

I can confirm there has been “NO”, repeat “NO” interviews for direct entry captains for CX or CX Freight and I know first hand. There have been interviews for DEFO’s with the possibility of a quicker than normal commands but only after all those ahead in seniority list have been given a look in and/or a go first. Any person making such a claim as having attended an interview for DECapt’s CX or CX Freight is fishing and trying to create a wind up. My advice is to ignore them.

Well you better look into it, seeing the CP told me at a fleet forum he had just interviewed a bunch months ago, with only a few suitable candidates. They were given the nod but that was the last I heard. They would go straight into the left seat for line trainning and if they don't pass will be offered the right seat.

Also I've met a guy at a flying club in the UK who was going for the position, and I believe he was one who got the OK.

This is the Classic Freighter I'm talking about.

SMOC

I have. There have been a number of individuals interviewed for the expressed intent of “Rapid Command”. These individuals if selected will be employed as DEFO’s on the freighters and once all suitable F/O’s on the companies seniority list have been given a go and/or a look in and any other suitable F/O given a chance to bid, then and only then will these new F/O’s be given a shot at command. It may just be that there are no suitable F/O’s on the companies seniority list and no other F/O’s are prepared to go to the freighter. If this is the case then these individuals will probably jump straight into the left seat. I would suggest these individuals were interviewed because of this very reason and not to jump the seniority list as was infered by the original poster in this thread. Oh and did I mention the failure rate on the Classic command course?:oh:

LHS?
 

TITAN since you have your finger somewhere near the pulse, do you know which seat these "F/O's" will be doing their initial training in?

jtr
Personally I don’t but I suspect some will do their initial training in the left seat for the reason I stated above.

I had also "heard" they would do it in the LHS.

So they join as an F/O, they train in the LHS, thus can only fly on the line with C+T, so that will not go on any longer than it needs (if that long at all), then they get signed off to fly with F/O's when they are still sitting in the LHS (sounds oddly similar to a 3 bar check)...

hmmmm.....

Let me think about it, they never fly in the RHS, the first time they fly on the line once out of the training system is as a Captain, but they are not DEC's?

If it walks like a duck...

jtr

You could be very right there but if the company is in breach of contract by employing DEC over existing suitably qualified applicants on the CX seniority list, I can see a court case coming on, don’t you.

CX
 

Hi 404 Titan,

For info I was offered an interview as a DEC for CX cargo, but I have changed my mind since I've applied for the position so I won't go!

YES! Cathay is employing DEC........if what you said is true, that is: they have existing suitably qualified FOs, why don't they upgrade those guys?

Don't you have a union in CX? That would be a very interesting question to ask them.

Regarding the labor law in China/HKG, do a search on the net and you will find out why CX is not worried about that!

Cheers.... :cool:

question, they may be in breach of contract but...if no one in the company wants a classic command what should the company do?:confused:

cpdude

The point is if no F/O in the company wants to take a Freighter Command position then the company isn't in breach of contract is it?

74world

You were interviewed under the possibility of a “rapid command”. I’m splitting hairs I know but the positions weren’t advertised as DEC because the company can’t guarantee that. If you were employed and all the positions for command were filled from within the company you would have been stuck in the right seat. The chances of that happening in reality are remote at present because most F/O’s on the freighter bid to transfer to the pax fleet after three years and those that are on the pax fleet already don’t want the crap conditions on offer on the freighters. The company has created a mess for itself which it is trying to fix with COS07 but quite frankly will only make it worse.

Is that true? In a practical sense how would that work? Would they not have to notify pilots of the opportunity and course of action should no one apply?

Interviews are in about a month for Germany bases on the 747-400.

Pilots will be employed as FOs and when they complete the training will be promoted to Captain.

The initial pay is about £2000 below the current captains wage, a combination of FO pay and a top up, normal Captain pay when promoted.

I've just spoken to a DEC, has his induction course Monday, he's sitting having a coffee in CX as I type :eek: after ground school and everything else he goes straight in the LHS for line training as stated by others.

Not Quite
 

CP Dude ;

Not true there are plenty of guys willing to give the classic commands a try. They are not being given their chance because of polotics. They are too young or their training record is not pristene or they have run afoul of some training Captain.

At CX we have the ridiculous situation that the longer you are here the more likely you are to get a bad report (line check or sim).Then you are held back from command. If you come as a DEFO and do your command within the first two years you can get through. If a candidate with the same experience waits and begins to loose his flying ability while flying longhaul relief then gets a bad report, that is it wait another year Cat b'd etc.

It is ridiculous.

So yes it is a contract violation (IMHO)to hire rapid command (direct entry Captains) while arbitrarily and unfairly holding current pilots back from command courses. As for Union, well we have an association but we only have 50% representation so understandably no influence on the companies policies etc. All we can do is go to court and that takes a long time to resolve.

Hapy flying !

Sorry to upset you all however, Yes, it is true. DECs onto the Classic Freighter. Cannot as yet confirm the number but at least three starting in the new year. They are recruited as FO's for quick upgrade. This means training right from the start in the LEFT SEAT.

This is straight from the most recent C and T meeting.

If they are employed as FOs and given a rapid command (Doesn't matter how rapid - could be days), then surely the company does not breach any agreements correct? Very sneaky, and not in the spirit of any agreement, but technically allowed as far as I know.

geh065....right on. You got it in one.

Real Question
 

The real question is why would the company hire DECaptains with no company experience and yet hold back Pilots who have been with the company and are a known quantity.

The same thing is happening on the 400 Freighter fleet. Albeit not quite as quick but certainly less than two years.

It has been said to new joiners that you are better off going for command in the first two years on the freighter than waiting to try after that as you will by then have some black marks against you !! How ridiculous is that.

Of course there is the issue of pass rates The pass rate on the classic (which is the only fleet that is hiring Rapid command (DECaptains) is below 50 % .

You pays yur money and you takes yur chances !

I think you answered your own question.

For the same reason the F/O's are better off going for a command in the first two years.

Nothing exemplifies the perverse nature of this company better than this ridiculous situation. The company would seemingly want to have people in the left seat who they have no experience in dealing with, to the career detriment of their own long-serving FO's. Only in CX...:D :ugh: . The system of training in this company is beyond broken, it's smashed and pulped. I would have any potential candidates for this 'job' carefully consider the following: why would you chance a job with this company when HUNDREDS of it's own fully qualified FO's won't volunteer for the position? Does that not raise any little 'red flags' in your minds? This company is rapidly becoming a laughing stock, and situations like this only make it more so. If you have ANY chance of a career with a 'proper' airline...take it. Working for CX is like living in the real life version of Jack Nicholsons movie 'One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest'....:{

I must agree and state that the training department and the entire upgrade process at CX is the most troublesome part I find within the airline.

Rostering might be an issue but the #1 problem as I see it is the training system. However, it is not the majority of the great trainers that give selflessly but of the system which is set and controlled by a select few at the top.:*

Sorry to hear that
 

Guys,

I feel for you, having your career plans thrown into chaos.

Still, there's so much more to life than a job, unless you make the job your life.

Get out there and live, matey's.

Play to your strengths, not your weaknesses.

If work is a weakness, make it a small part of your life.

Sounds simple, harder to put into practice, but true from start to finish.

4 Pratts :

Don't mistake the desire for better and fairer working conditions as being synonymous with a lack of home life. You can be a keen observer of events around you, make comment (usually because you care about more than your own hide) and still live happily.

I myself still find the posotives at CX still outweigh the negatives. However as a former checker in a previous life I am immensely frustrated with the current C & T state of affairs. Never have I seen a company so at odds with itself.

They want to expand but are doing the following:
trying to pay less, making upgrade harder, running off the most experienced C & T with reduced COS, creating working conditions in C & T that keep people from applying and force others to quit C & T, making rostering difficult and punitive resulting in a possible loss of badly needed co-operation, failing to heed that they are an internationaly crewed airline now and not British or Australian, and last but not least making upgrading from within the company harder than it has to be and harder than direct entry.

I cannot fathom how the coperate side of this company is sitting idle while this plays out. Expansion oppurtunities are going to be missed. Market share will be lost. Hong Kong itself is in danger of loosing it's gateway status. All of which can be directly tied to the inability of this company to put Captains in the cockpit.

I say all this because I care. It does not have to be so hard. We could move forward and enter the new milenium or even the 90's as far as training methods and employee motivation is concerned. We should have an aircrew body of successful and proud Pilots, not one of low moral and frustration. We should be able to expand the airline and not give up the great job it could still be.

Soap Box off,

Having said all that I am off to Phuket !! Cheers !

I agree and they (CX) don't care!

It's a pathetic airline but not a bad place to work.:ugh:

Hi everyone,

Sounds odd to me but the Rapid Command process is confirmed on the Cathay Pacific web site.
Vacancies currently exist in Frankfurt only.
Aircraft type not mentioned.
At the end of a given period crew may continue to operate Freighter Aircraft or they may bid to operate Cathay Pacific Passenger Aircraft.
Regarding the switching to Cathay mainline my question is on which type and at wich rank (Senior FO, Junior Captain or Senior Captain) could this occur?

The offer says "in seniority order". It currently takes someone on the pax fleet about 9 – 10 years to upgrade to command. If you took a quick command on the freighter, you won’t be considered for a command slot transfer to the pax fleet for about 9 – 10 years from DOJ. If you were prepared to move across to the right hand seat to the rank applicable to your seniority on the pax fleet, you may see the pax fleet in about four years after all S/O’s on the pax fleet ahead of you in the seniority list have been given a shot at F/O.