jtr

You could be very right there but if the company is in breach of contract by employing DEC over existing suitably qualified applicants on the CX seniority list, I can see a court case coming on, don’t you.

CX
 

Hi 404 Titan,

For info I was offered an interview as a DEC for CX cargo, but I have changed my mind since I've applied for the position so I won't go!

YES! Cathay is employing DEC........if what you said is true, that is: they have existing suitably qualified FOs, why don't they upgrade those guys?

Don't you have a union in CX? That would be a very interesting question to ask them.

Regarding the labor law in China/HKG, do a search on the net and you will find out why CX is not worried about that!

Cheers.... :cool:

question, they may be in breach of contract but...if no one in the company wants a classic command what should the company do?:confused:

cpdude

The point is if no F/O in the company wants to take a Freighter Command position then the company isn't in breach of contract is it?

74world

You were interviewed under the possibility of a “rapid command”. I’m splitting hairs I know but the positions weren’t advertised as DEC because the company can’t guarantee that. If you were employed and all the positions for command were filled from within the company you would have been stuck in the right seat. The chances of that happening in reality are remote at present because most F/O’s on the freighter bid to transfer to the pax fleet after three years and those that are on the pax fleet already don’t want the crap conditions on offer on the freighters. The company has created a mess for itself which it is trying to fix with COS07 but quite frankly will only make it worse.

Is that true? In a practical sense how would that work? Would they not have to notify pilots of the opportunity and course of action should no one apply?

Interviews are in about a month for Germany bases on the 747-400.

Pilots will be employed as FOs and when they complete the training will be promoted to Captain.

The initial pay is about £2000 below the current captains wage, a combination of FO pay and a top up, normal Captain pay when promoted.

I've just spoken to a DEC, has his induction course Monday, he's sitting having a coffee in CX as I type :eek: after ground school and everything else he goes straight in the LHS for line training as stated by others.

Not Quite
 

CP Dude ;

Not true there are plenty of guys willing to give the classic commands a try. They are not being given their chance because of polotics. They are too young or their training record is not pristene or they have run afoul of some training Captain.

At CX we have the ridiculous situation that the longer you are here the more likely you are to get a bad report (line check or sim).Then you are held back from command. If you come as a DEFO and do your command within the first two years you can get through. If a candidate with the same experience waits and begins to loose his flying ability while flying longhaul relief then gets a bad report, that is it wait another year Cat b'd etc.

It is ridiculous.

So yes it is a contract violation (IMHO)to hire rapid command (direct entry Captains) while arbitrarily and unfairly holding current pilots back from command courses. As for Union, well we have an association but we only have 50% representation so understandably no influence on the companies policies etc. All we can do is go to court and that takes a long time to resolve.

Hapy flying !

Sorry to upset you all however, Yes, it is true. DECs onto the Classic Freighter. Cannot as yet confirm the number but at least three starting in the new year. They are recruited as FO's for quick upgrade. This means training right from the start in the LEFT SEAT.

This is straight from the most recent C and T meeting.

If they are employed as FOs and given a rapid command (Doesn't matter how rapid - could be days), then surely the company does not breach any agreements correct? Very sneaky, and not in the spirit of any agreement, but technically allowed as far as I know.

geh065....right on. You got it in one.

Real Question
 

The real question is why would the company hire DECaptains with no company experience and yet hold back Pilots who have been with the company and are a known quantity.

The same thing is happening on the 400 Freighter fleet. Albeit not quite as quick but certainly less than two years.

It has been said to new joiners that you are better off going for command in the first two years on the freighter than waiting to try after that as you will by then have some black marks against you !! How ridiculous is that.

Of course there is the issue of pass rates The pass rate on the classic (which is the only fleet that is hiring Rapid command (DECaptains) is below 50 % .

You pays yur money and you takes yur chances !

I think you answered your own question.

For the same reason the F/O's are better off going for a command in the first two years.

Nothing exemplifies the perverse nature of this company better than this ridiculous situation. The company would seemingly want to have people in the left seat who they have no experience in dealing with, to the career detriment of their own long-serving FO's. Only in CX...:D :ugh: . The system of training in this company is beyond broken, it's smashed and pulped. I would have any potential candidates for this 'job' carefully consider the following: why would you chance a job with this company when HUNDREDS of it's own fully qualified FO's won't volunteer for the position? Does that not raise any little 'red flags' in your minds? This company is rapidly becoming a laughing stock, and situations like this only make it more so. If you have ANY chance of a career with a 'proper' airline...take it. Working for CX is like living in the real life version of Jack Nicholsons movie 'One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest'....:{

I must agree and state that the training department and the entire upgrade process at CX is the most troublesome part I find within the airline.

Rostering might be an issue but the #1 problem as I see it is the training system. However, it is not the majority of the great trainers that give selflessly but of the system which is set and controlled by a select few at the top.:*

Sorry to hear that
 

Guys,

I feel for you, having your career plans thrown into chaos.

Still, there's so much more to life than a job, unless you make the job your life.

Get out there and live, matey's.

Play to your strengths, not your weaknesses.

If work is a weakness, make it a small part of your life.

Sounds simple, harder to put into practice, but true from start to finish.

4 Pratts :

Don't mistake the desire for better and fairer working conditions as being synonymous with a lack of home life. You can be a keen observer of events around you, make comment (usually because you care about more than your own hide) and still live happily.

I myself still find the posotives at CX still outweigh the negatives. However as a former checker in a previous life I am immensely frustrated with the current C & T state of affairs. Never have I seen a company so at odds with itself.

They want to expand but are doing the following:
trying to pay less, making upgrade harder, running off the most experienced C & T with reduced COS, creating working conditions in C & T that keep people from applying and force others to quit C & T, making rostering difficult and punitive resulting in a possible loss of badly needed co-operation, failing to heed that they are an internationaly crewed airline now and not British or Australian, and last but not least making upgrading from within the company harder than it has to be and harder than direct entry.

I cannot fathom how the coperate side of this company is sitting idle while this plays out. Expansion oppurtunities are going to be missed. Market share will be lost. Hong Kong itself is in danger of loosing it's gateway status. All of which can be directly tied to the inability of this company to put Captains in the cockpit.

I say all this because I care. It does not have to be so hard. We could move forward and enter the new milenium or even the 90's as far as training methods and employee motivation is concerned. We should have an aircrew body of successful and proud Pilots, not one of low moral and frustration. We should be able to expand the airline and not give up the great job it could still be.

Soap Box off,

Having said all that I am off to Phuket !! Cheers !

I agree and they (CX) don't care!

It's a pathetic airline but not a bad place to work.:ugh:

Hi everyone,

Sounds odd to me but the Rapid Command process is confirmed on the Cathay Pacific web site.
Vacancies currently exist in Frankfurt only.
Aircraft type not mentioned.
At the end of a given period crew may continue to operate Freighter Aircraft or they may bid to operate Cathay Pacific Passenger Aircraft.
Regarding the switching to Cathay mainline my question is on which type and at wich rank (Senior FO, Junior Captain or Senior Captain) could this occur?

The offer says "in seniority order". It currently takes someone on the pax fleet about 9 – 10 years to upgrade to command. If you took a quick command on the freighter, you won’t be considered for a command slot transfer to the pax fleet for about 9 – 10 years from DOJ. If you were prepared to move across to the right hand seat to the rank applicable to your seniority on the pax fleet, you may see the pax fleet in about four years after all S/O’s on the pax fleet ahead of you in the seniority list have been given a shot at F/O.