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-   -   Recruitment for DEFO and DESO (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/647024-recruitment-defo-deso.html)

cxflog 2nd Jun 2022 07:34

Recruitment for DEFO and DESO
 
So it seems like the resignation rate has gotten a little too high for GH’s liking and there is now a recruitment push for more SO’s and FO’s without the PR requirement. I’m sure there will be a long queue of FO’s waiting to be locked up :}

bufe01 2nd Jun 2022 08:16

Good TRs to have, a bit of heavy time and then they can apply to Atlas !

ChrissyPrezzie 2nd Jun 2022 08:33

It has not been more clear that the PR requirement was created ONLY to satisfy the HK Immigration!
Now that the experienced guys are leaving at a rate of knots and they couldn't find enough locals to fill the jobs, they could easily take it down without being summoned by the Immigration. Smart move. Good luck with that tho.

Airblast 28th Jun 2022 07:36

From a Comair mate asking about CX after a presentation a few days back.

CX suggested to DEFO candidates with a lot of experience - Comair pilots in this case - a fast track career to command based on experience.

I have also heard this has been said to ex Dragon CNs rehired as DEFOs.

So, after the fast track SO to FO upgrade out of seniority, here comes the fast track command upgrade out of seniority.



MENELAUS 28th Jun 2022 07:38


Originally Posted by Airblast (Post 11252713)
From a Comair mate asking about CX after a presentation a few days back.

CX suggested to DEFO candidates with a lot of experience - Comair pilots in this case - a fast track career to command based on experience.

I have also heard this has been said to ex Dragon CNs rehired as DEFOs.

So, after the fast track SO to FO upgrade out of seniority, here comes the fast track command upgrade out of seniority.


Nothing should come as a surprise. How did you think they would rebuild the outfit ? Assuming that it is able to be rebuilt. ?

backspace 28th Jun 2022 09:10

Why do people continually use seniority and Cathay in the same post

cxflog 28th Jun 2022 11:03

Seniority was gone the moment everyone signed Cos18. CX is no longer a career airline.

MENELAUS 28th Jun 2022 11:14


Originally Posted by cxflog (Post 11252834)
Seniority was gone the moment everyone signed Cos18. CX is no longer a career airline.


Seniority was gone long before that.

Rie 28th Jun 2022 12:11

There is no more seniority as said about. What about the UO Guys inked in to move across as well? Not just rumours? It sounds like we are so short that even poaching isn't off the books.

propje 28th Jun 2022 12:22

We all know it is the big carrot to get pilots to join….

TriJetFlying 28th Jun 2022 13:40


Originally Posted by Rie (Post 11252868)
There is no more seniority as said about. What about the UO Guys inked in to move across as well? Not just rumours? It sounds like we are so short that even poaching isn't off the books.

The UO guys will need to get behind all the LD (AHK) guys who are already inked in…

Silent Treatment 28th Jun 2022 14:10


Originally Posted by Airblast (Post 11252713)
From a Comair mate asking about CX after a presentation a few days back.

CX suggested to DEFO candidates with a lot of experience - Comair pilots in this case - a fast track career to command based on experience.

I have also heard this has been said to ex Dragon CNs rehired as DEFOs.

So, after the fast track SO to FO upgrade out of seniority, here comes the fast track command upgrade out of seniority.

I witnessed this debacle live and was amazed by the amount of misinformation presented by the current GMF and by the amount of candidates who genuinely seemed interested in taking up a position at CX. Here are a few points that stood out to me from that presentation:

- Firstly, the meeting was presented by TB and four other secretaries. No pilots present during a pilot recruitment presentation...immediate red flags (TB doesn't count IMO)
- Comair candidates will not do any sort of assessment in HK, including simulator. All assessments will be done online. You arrive in HK, do quarantine and then you start your training. "We assuming you'll be able to fly an aeroplane" - TB
- CX will receive the new Boeing 777 in 2024. I'm sure the last update from Boeing was for the new variant to be released globally in 2025. Maybe he knows something they don't.
- When talking about staff travel benefits, he gave the following example: HKG-JNB in J class - costs 1,000 HKD. I've paid more for "Free Of Charge" tickets.
- TB also stated that the public health system in HK is so good that it's actually a reason why many people choose to retire in HK. I spilled some coffee with this one.
- Regarding housing, he made it clear that HK offers a diverse variety of places to live. Not everyone chooses to live on HK Island with all the busy city life. You can choose to live on South Lantau, where he lives, and where there's "pristine white beaches." He did not mention CoS18.


Babyjet_dododo 28th Jun 2022 15:47


Originally Posted by Silent Treatment (Post 11252936)
I witnessed this debacle live and was amazed by the amount of misinformation presented by the current GMF and by the amount of candidates who genuinely seemed interested in taking up a position at CX.

I saw a couple of slides and it states that a Package for an FO is $HKD 1.61 mil. It says that FOs get 42 Days annual leave. Flexible Benefits cover.

From day 1 CX is already lying! You will NOT earn $1.61 mil if you’re on a pax fleet not for a long time, the rostering system is specifically tailored to keep everyone slightly below min productivity hours, you’ll be lucky to make anything above min basic salary per month. This is block hours, for example, a Shanghai is about a 14 hour day out in the current climate, only 6ish hours are recognised. Food for thought.

Annual leave for first officers is 35 days not 42 days, another lie.

Healthcare - let’s just say, the doctors here in the public sector are close to useless. Classic run of the mill and if they don’t know what it is they’ll throw their hands up in the air and send you to an equally useless specialist in about 2 years. “But My family and I will have private insurance through the company!” Yes you do, but make sure you don’t stay in hospital for more than a day or see a specialist more than 3 times because that’s when you’ll hit your limits without being informed and realise the company will be deducting $$$$ out of your salary that you’ll probably be paying back for years to come. (This is from first hand experience).

Even in the EK roadshows they will tell you hey we’ll work you hard and we are up front about it and don’t expect to commute because we’re going to restrict the roster to not allow it.

Oasis 28th Jun 2022 16:36

'We assume you can fly an aeroplane' no sim eval, straight into training

I won't sleep a wink in the bunk

carolknows 28th Jun 2022 16:51

But how many RA55 would accept RA65?

CovidRefugee 28th Jun 2022 17:08

Why would CX go to the trouble of hiring unknowns from Comair when they could offer to rehire those on bases that they fired recently? These are pilots with years in the company and HK licenses. Granted many would not accept, but have any been offered the chance to return?

Sam Ting Wong 28th Jun 2022 17:30

Because they are cheaper and their restricted passport makes them the more loyal employee.

CovidRefugee 28th Jun 2022 19:33

How cheaper Sam? Surely everyone is on the same contract now? CX can offer ex employers the same terms as a new joiner and save time and money on training. As for 'loyal employees', I doubt loyalty is a concept that any CX senior manager spends much time thinking about..

Sam Ting Wong 28th Jun 2022 19:59

Might not be possible to recruit West-Europeans or North Americans on Cos18. And loyal means less retraining costs..

Rie 28th Jun 2022 20:09


Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong (Post 11253023)
Because they are cheaper and their restricted passport makes them the more loyal employee.

Exactly this. Most if not all of the South Africans while they despise Hong Kong are only waiting for the 7 years before departing. CX gets min 7 years from them vs a European that realises after 2 that it’s been a failed excursion and leaves.

BuzzBox 28th Jun 2022 23:58


Originally Posted by CovidRefugee (Post 11253079)
How cheaper Sam? Surely everyone is on the same contract now? CX can offer ex employers the same terms as a new joiner and save time and money on training.

When the bases were closed, the affected pilots were offered the choice of either returning to Hong Kong on COS18, or redundancy. Most took the latter option. Why would any of them return as a 'new joiner', on less money than they could have earned if they'd returned when their bases closed? If it were me, I'd be insulted by such an 'offer'.

There's plenty of opportunity outside the sheltered workshop of Hong Kong, not least the ability to lead a normal life.



carolknows 29th Jun 2022 01:23

You will be surprised how many took the RA65 when the company desperately sent out letters. Some can't get the visa to work in the US despite finish recruitment.

bm330 29th Jun 2022 03:00


Originally Posted by BuzzBox (Post 11253191)
When the bases were closed, the affected pilots were offered the choice of either returning to Hong Kong on COS18, or redundancy. Most took the latter option.

The Company chose to close all except the US (since included) at the height of COVID-19 hysteria and in the midst of an organized campaign by ex-KA pilots. Only those with previously qualified PR were granted access to HK. Many PR holders who could return, refused. All non-PR pilots were required to apply for a visa following base closures as a condition to continue their CX employment. All were denied and all were summarily dismissed. Only through court action in the relative jurisdictions, was Cathay forced to provide a separation package to terminated pilots.

IMHO Not a single based pilot would move to Hong Kong at this point even if the great Augustus called them up personally.

cxflog 29th Jun 2022 03:54


Originally Posted by bm330 (Post 11253217)
IMHO Not a single based pilot would move to Hong Kong at this point even if the great Augustus called them up personally.

You would have to be really desperate to come back to HK and submit to the endless rules and restrictions placed on you by the CHP, even if you get past the significant paycut. There’s plenty of opportunities in much better places for anyone actually pulling the wool from over their eyes. Rumour has it some of the SO’s with previous flight time are also on their way out :oh:

BuzzBox 29th Jun 2022 04:06


Originally Posted by bm330 (Post 11253217)
The Company chose to close all except the US (since included) at the height of COVID-19 hysteria and in the midst of an organized campaign by ex-KA pilots. Only those with previously qualified PR were granted access to HK. Many PR holders who could return, refused. All non-PR pilots were required to apply for a visa following base closures as a condition to continue their CX employment. All were denied and all were summarily dismissed. Only through court action in the relative jurisdictions, was Cathay forced to provide a separation package to terminated pilots.

Fair enough. The point was that few (if any) who were able to go back to Hong Kong at the time would go back now as 'new joiners', on even less salary.

anxiao 29th Jun 2022 04:35

It may seem unusual to bring new pilots into an airline without a simulator "ride" as the Americans have it, but it is not new. Back in the 1990s in CX, Human Resources as it then was wanted to take the simulator out of recruitment completely as they were convinced their psychometric testing and general interview were sufficient. In the end FLT OPS managed to keep it in, but the weighting was reduced to 10% of the scoring. We did start training a few Lulus at that time, including a couple of simulator instructors with Parker 51 hours from another well respected airline but we caught them in the slips after a couple of overs.

Which comes to the point now. It is probably cheaper to bring new entrant pilots into Hong Kong and weed them out here in the first few weeks than go to the expense of sending an interview team to JNB/CPT and sim-check them there. Then you have to quarantine the interview team on return. More $$$, even if you can get rooms for them.

Personally I would be very happy to sit alongside an ex Comair pilot and leave him in the seat while I go for crew rest. It was pretty competitive to get a job with Comair anyway, and they will have done multiple sectors RHS (or even LHS) on B737s which is a good basis for further training. I'll stick my neck out and add that the Saffers as a bunch are perhaps more stoic than other nationalities right now, and will do the hard yards for professional development.

disclaimer:- Not a Saffer


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