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-   -   Heads up (or down) (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/643828-heads-up-down.html)

Noonday Gurn 20th Nov 2021 07:01

Heads up (or down)
Hearing from a believable source that there will be fallout from 'Frankfurt.' Rumour is of a historic investigation into flightdeck nightstops (pax and freighter) at random ports over the last few months. Source has had to explain certain expenditures. Nothing more at this stage, but its highly likely this is not just company. Be careful.

Jnr380 20th Nov 2021 12:54

Hey while they’re at it, they’ll rope all the banks to provide every single foreign transaction made by aircrew in the interest of “public safety”

1200firm 20th Nov 2021 16:27

CX must be :mad: themselves. Because if it happens again then it will mandatory 2 weeks quarantine for ALL crew that does ANY layover. Which will cease operations. Happy days ahead.

Oasis 21st Nov 2021 06:43

You've got a real point there, thank for that write-up.

carolknows 21st Nov 2021 06:58

Can someone tell me how many times was the particular big bank Chief's nose being swabbed to be able to skip quarantine?
Unless one is in a PPE the whole time throughout the journey to the airport and flight, how would we know every single person around him has no covid?
What has the size of the bank got to do with his immunity against covid?

controlledrest 21st Nov 2021 08:05


An easy fix:

Give the crew who have been working in the loops 4 months of G days. Encourage them to go to their home countries and families if they want.

Reactivate the crew who aren't working and give them all Temp Bases.

Reading the posts here and on yammer (before they are censored) makes it clear we are close to a tipping point and need a big reset.

Atr1 21st Nov 2021 09:09

and who is this reliable source? Name them please.

KABOY 21st Nov 2021 09:59

I think the CX head of Occupational Health needs to stand up or step down.

She has been good at implementing D&A programs with no regard to assistance programs. Time to step up and manage mental wellbeing, rather than become a messenger for the CHP. Might be a task too big based on her history.

It's easy to implement a program, rather than manage a program that will have fallout.

She will action the demand of the government/company and CAD at their beheath.

Rie 21st Nov 2021 10:32


But remember that the PAN is always available. Your friendly peer support officers are "trained" to deal with it all. I see one on Instagram sponsoring her posts all the time. It's nice to see someone getting out the message that she is there to help.

Just remember they are a "Safe Harbour"

If in doubt... Call the PAN HK!

Oasis 21st Nov 2021 13:56

The whole ‘mental health is important to us’ mantra is purely lip service in my opinion.

Always watch what someone does, not what they say…

172_driver 21st Nov 2021 21:10

Sorry to stick my nose in, I am an outsider but sneak into Fragrant Harbour sometimes for amusement ;)
Now it seems someone got sacked for leaving their hotel room on a layover, is that right?

Would someone care to explain in simple terms what restrictions you're under as flight crew exercising your duty?
- What can you/can't you do on layovers?
- What happens when you get back to HK following a trip?

Sounds draconian from what I read, but then I am not sure I always follow?
Been out of work for a year. I miss flying a bit but if what I gather is true I wouldn't want to get back.

Rie 21st Nov 2021 21:42

Your layover starts day one of duty when you head to Cathay City to gain clinical depression. It ends 5 weeks later when you walk out of the Tung Chung Four Points and have a tear in your eye that you can once again breathe the fresh air of China.

You are not allowed to leave your room, you are allowed to watch tv, shower, eat. Maybe just maybe you’ll get enough internet connection to be able to stream something.

When you get back to Hong Kong you get to make love to a Cotton Tip. If this is ok then you get to go back into solitary confinement. If it is not ok then you get thrown into the Lantau Hospital and once you are good then you spend another 14 days in confinement. If any of the people you have worked with in the last 21 days have an issue then you get the pleasure of staying in a luxury hotel next to Disneyland.

VforVENDETTA 21st Nov 2021 22:09

Hk and laws in one sentence is such an ironic joke. There is not a single law in hk that I can't personally show you examples of of it being broken egregiously all the time. Hk has always been that way since its inception. It's all always been for show. Especially if you're rich, you're allowed to get around all of it. Corruption in all things in a core fabric of life in hk.

So excuse my laughing when i hear the indignation of some saying oh you didn't follow the law so now you deserve bad things...

The amount of laws broken every day that I have and continue to see every day (and night) is staggering. And that's just me one person.

ALL of the covid rules and restrictions put in place in hk since the beginning and thu the entire set of changes implemented, ALL of it has been completely disregarded without slowing down of much of it. Underground secret parties, old ladies dance parties with their jogolos, rich individuals coming and going thru hk without any test or quarantine whatsoever at will, certain clubs packed past capacity music banging loud nobody wearing masks people sharing drinks yelling and speaking to others an inch away from their face way past the curfew closing time and police walking just outside never walking up the escalator to check anything about where all the loud noise is coming from. Or certain bars packed full of people pretending to be closed with squads of police walking the street outside forcing people to go home pretending they dont know this place is packed beyond capacity while apparently everyone else knows exactly what's going on. They have always selectively ignored certain establishments... I wonder how much they get paid to look the other way $$$

I know because I've seen all this first hand on a regular basis. And no, i haven't been flying all this time.

An actress allowed so publicly to come and be on the street shopping or shooting a movie without a mask the next day, no quarantine, no 28 days of testing, nothing. With that display hk government gave up any pretence of the BS they're always so full of.

So it's laughable to say oh hk laws you must respect authori-tie. Laws of hk? Very funny.

172_driver 22nd Nov 2021 19:17

Your layover starts day one of duty when you head to Cathay City to gain clinical depression. It ends 5 weeks later when you walk out of the Tung Chung Four Points and have a tear in your eye that you can once again breathe the fresh air of China.
Thanks for that! Unbelievable. I guess it goes without saying you are totally isolated from your family in that period of time? How much time off then, before next round of 5 weeks of prison?

Oasis 22nd Nov 2021 20:29

Over that time period, your youngest learned to walk, your oldest lost a tooth, and your wife started sleeping with the tv-repairman.

You walk to the edge of the road to flag down a taxi, only to find out that no-one will pick you up, as pedestrians walk around you with a wide berth.

BubbaJ 23rd Nov 2021 01:13

Stop volunteering then you fools FFS

Koan 24th Nov 2021 02:07


This was shocking

「Whilst it was envisaged pilots would only undertake one loop consisting of 5-6 weeks continuous isolation duty, followed by two weeks off. Several pilots are currently on their 5th closed loop and have conducted over 200 days of solitary confinement isolation this year alone. No fresh air or outside exercise on those days confined, eating only what’s on limited offer.」

Are you saying there are pilots who for 200 days have not seen anything but hotel rooms, then transport to an airport for a flight and back to hotel room and nothing else for months? Did they have access to outdoor exercise on some of the layovers? This would be akin to flight in a space capsule. But one would be regularly monitored by medical experts in that case. My very first experience with strict room lockdown in 2020 was three nights Radisson BLUE SYD and I thought I would go nuts. Watching hours of government deliberations on Australian tv it was pointed out that prisoners in Victoria jails are legally entitled to regular fresh air and exercise. I ended myself up dehydrated as I was trying to stretch my water supply... Bad idea. Most of our international layovers are nothing like this and we have run of the hotel if not full freedoms now.

I have done 15 nights straight to get into Thailand but at that time allowed one hour poolside relaxation per day after the first 4 or 5 days. The fact that they are now open for vaccinated tourists even with preflight PCR and one more arrival test proves there is no basis to continue these harsh lockdowns.

Madness and unsustainable.

Hugo Peroni the IV 24th Nov 2021 05:55

Yes, Gardner is saying that. And there is no outdoor exercise.

Rie 24th Nov 2021 09:04

Well on paper there was no outdoor exercise...

Now with the meeting of the two systems last week and another one planned for tomorrow anything could happen. Apparently the north isn't quite happy with the crew arrangements. Could end up changing even for freighters overnight.

KABOY 24th Nov 2021 10:34

1) financial desperation - due the imposed permanent contract changes.
2) fear - loss of livelihood
Volunteering for incarceration?

Shouldn’t that now question their livelihood/ financial situation?

‘Yes your honor, I shall offer my incarceration in return for your compensation.’

CX pilots are now operating under duress, will this stand up in a court? The last time this happened saw a truck driver on murder charges. You can’t operate heavy machinery when your physical/ mental ability is impaired.

This is what you are saying about CX closed loop pilots?

Think it’s time for the manager of occupational health to identify individuals not suitable. Little bit like all the other tests you do, ask her to help out, I’m sure she will listen.

Her job shouldn’t just be about terminating staff, but reviewing their welfare.

SaulGoodman 24th Nov 2021 10:55

Closed loop flying
For clarification: If you do closed loop flying for say 5 weeks: Am I right to assume that you leave your HK residence on day 1, do a trip and upon return at HKG you go to a quarantine hotel before you go on another trip. It is only after 5 weeks that you can go home after such a loop: is the mandatory quarantine to enter HKG in your OFF days?

solitary confinement has been proven to be extremely detrimental to ones mental health. Since Germanwings in EASA land we have to talk about our mental status every medical yet the HKCAD seems to be ok with all of this?

If the closed loop flying really is what I believe it to be shouldn’t it be time for regulatory authorities worldwide to close its airspace for HKG carriers?

MENELAUS 24th Nov 2021 11:48

Yes frankly it is well past time.

BubbaJ 25th Nov 2021 04:03


SIDS N STARS 25th Nov 2021 04:11

CX flights being cancelled because of pilot shortage, while at the same time, UO pilots taking unpaid leave because their is not work in Hong Kong for pilots... I don't know whether to laugh or cry..

Smogville 25th Nov 2021 04:47

To have low cost S.Americans flying our shiny jets with ICAO 4 on the RT? Where will that leave our Saffa brothers?

Truly shows how far CX has fallen the ranks in the industry.

Rie 25th Nov 2021 05:27

It is becoming laughable how many decisions across the group have been made with unsavoury outcomes. Friends at UO are wondering why they never did passenger freight ops around SEA. These same people are now are being told that it is in their best interests to allow the company to take away all pay until next October.

A quick check of the seniority list is showing more departures lately. Seems to be accelerating post Penny's.

What is stopping them from doing a quick CCQ to the 330/350 letting them operate it as a UO pilot short term. I am sure there would be many crew there with previous Wide Body/Airbus experience. It would help the group and I am sure there are many of them would be happy to get away from their wives for 5 weeks after being incarcerated for the last 2 years.

I do recall that the old Back in Ansett boys had stories from 89' that were similar albeit surrounding wage issues not just closed loop problems. People swooping in to save the day and hitting the little black book for the rest of their lives. You never know, we might see a CX little black book.

Jnr380 25th Nov 2021 06:33


Just heard that this morning, instead of paying a decent wage and extra to retain talent and for the grief caused by the government the company decided it’s much easier to just cancel flights, Their main source of income!

Bueno Hombre 25th Nov 2021 07:48

Ah , so the CX Management Morons are starting to see sense.. Fast Learners ?

kenfoggo 25th Nov 2021 10:00

Is there any truth in the rumour that CX are now contacting pilots that were let go on Voluntary Severance Scheme to rejoin the airline on short term contacts to help with the pilot shortage and cancellation of flights?

carolknows 25th Nov 2021 10:08

You reap what you....

RAT Management 25th Nov 2021 10:41

Don't worry plenty of people will sign up and volunteer for the TC appointment by the company. Only to cry about working so hard and only getting paid minimum hours +5%. The good will is still alive and well, I see it everyday. People aren't leaving. Sickness isn't on the increase. Mental health and well-being are not a problem. Nobody taxis slowly. There is no them and us, it's all one team. The multitude of genuine thank you's being heaped on the flight crews without any attempt to address the permanent cut to T&C's. The light is at the end of the tunnel and things will only improve once we all get the 3rd vaccination.

KABOY 25th Nov 2021 11:22

We are taking about a company that continues to pay Swire’s finest princes over 10,000,000 per year, in an airline that has lost billions.

The uniform continues to attracts narcissists who are willing to participate for the acceptance they receive.

Greg, Chris and the team thanks those individuals, because without them the losses would be even greater.

Swire is only a minority shareholder, but they continue to milk billions out of the airline under their management agreement.

The HKSAR have signed up to support the business, whilst Swire’s line their pockets in fees for managing the airline. That is a great business model.

RAT Management 25th Nov 2021 11:31

" We are deeply grateful for your professionalism and dedication and will look at proactive ways of assisting you".....:mad:!.... So does that mean you will return my pay and conditions to the former level at the same time Management have their pay and conditions returned...? Afterall management don't need to do closed loops, EMS, MS, RAT's. Even the doctors don't get it ? They wonder why we are all fatter than a year before..? They tell you to try exercise more. Where the :mad: is your motivation when your locked in a room all the :mad: time! Like the professional listener from the PAN will help me if I call. All I want and everyone else wants is answers. If I want an empty whinge I go to pprune.

CovidRefugee 25th Nov 2021 11:45

All well and good Rat, but you and your colleagues put up with it. You're all impotent.The most important thing to you is that CX uniform. Nothing else matters.

Pay cut - where do I sign.
Multiple closed loop with hotel isolation- Yes Sir!
Compulsory booster jab - Which arm would you like?
Family locked up in PB - Don't worry it might not happen.

If Chris K asked for volunteers to donate one of their nuts there would be a queue of willing pilots at his desk. You'd probably bring your own chopping knife.

Jnr380 25th Nov 2021 12:06

🤣 I find it funny because it true, except for the last point, we’re not there…….yet!

Flex88 25th Nov 2021 14:50

Should be "gave" up...
CK eagerly handed them both over many many years ago.. Jellyfish don't and never will have balls because who would ever have the need to ask a jellyfish for courage or integrity..

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