Exit Strategies
 

For me and many others, as a result of the pay and conditions changes - including conditions in the city itself, HK is no longer a suitable, pleasant or safe place to work.

In discussing exit strategies with colleagues, I note that applications CX crews are being welcomed at some US and ME carriers.

Rumours of commuting options for some, anyone able to confirm?

US citizens are welcomed with open arms with US carriers, As for ME, EK and QR still working through furloughed pilots, EY has nothing on the Horizon, FZ had a rush of applicants that they’re probably good for a good couple of years.

Everyone is waiting out this pandemic for the hope to move on to greener pastures.

Very good question.
Undoubtably CX will be losing more pilots as this fiasco unfolds before our own eyes. The utter ignorance of the HK government is astounding.
Cx has been digging its own grave. They have just gnawed away at everyones conditions throughout this pandemic. I am not a local HKer, if I was I would be very disappointed in this "HK company" as I am sure many are. Imagine my government giving a company 40B and they cut your earnings (future earnings by 40% PERMANENTLY)! But I guess some people are suckers for punishment.

Back to the question - I definitely think lots of pilots (expat and local) are looking for an exit strategy, and if they are not they really should be. Be it, if you are employed by HKE,AHK or CX! The shortage of pilots in the USA market at this moment is apparent, and we not even over the pandemic. Europe will be short soon as well because NEWS FLASH, the world is moving on!

ME carriers will be hiring from mid next year. Thats from the mouths of instructors in QR. Lots of airlines are waiting to see if the winter wave is anything to be concerned about, if due to the vaccines the death rates drop over the winter they will be planning a very profitable summer season. All airlines except HK and China that is!

Honestly before Covid many pilots in CX were talking about big money jobs in China for a few years and then retiring. I really think that China will have to pay people even bigger salaries now to get western pilots there. The way they have treated their western pilots at the start/throughout this pandemic is ....(you can decide for yourself). The way the are blindly trying to handle this pandemic is the biggest joke of the century! China will have a massive shortage of pilots in the near future. You can always go there... I know I won't for obviously reasons.

All of this is of course in my own opinion.
Good luck on your decision. Don't get caught with the handcuffs on in HK because trust me they are not golden anymore. Go where you wanted and where you enjoy living. I will be doing this for sure.

Lack of flexibility is a big one for me.
You can't visit family overseas at all due to the quarantine and on top of that the roster only comes out on the 27th or thereabouts, no reduced roster option (god knows why, would save them a heap of cash and give them flexibility), very late notice of unpaid leave so you can't plan on it, and its only given out one month at a time apparently.

'They' don't seem to care, beyond the empty words.

Please wake up
 

I think most of you are still 2-3 years behind on Cx management. These people know exactly what they’re doing. Just have a chat with anyone on a base that’s been laid off, the effort,precision,timing and money that has been put in getting rid of these pilots has to be one for the record books. The company’s future is now more secured than ever. They know where they want to go and it just doesn’t involve westerners, period. The final move starts next year when the benefits end and people start leaving, I’m sure they can’t wait. I understand it’s hard to hear but that is a fact.

As for pilot shortage, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AND THERE WILL NEVER BE a world pilot shortage. The ones that believe in such fallacy might as well believe in unicorns. Cx can easily get local pilots and/or in the future mainland pilots, why the hell would they need anyone from the west ever again?

I do understand everyone’s sentiment and regret and sense of despair etc etc but guys it’s not your local airline, nor your culture. These people accelerated what they were gonna do 10 years from now. Again, you are not part of their plans.

a lot of great theories there, unfortunately none are true, did you know it’s virtually impossible for Mainland Chinese pilots to leave their mainland employer? they signed a 99 year work contract and for another company to employ them, they’ll need to negotiate a payout figure with his/her existing company.

As long as Swire is in the game, there will be expats, and Swire is not going to give up grandpa’s toy planes without a fight.

We are behind management, yes I’ll agree with that but that is because they don’t share information, yes they have a strategy in place, but I doubt it revolves around the pilots. They don’t care if you’re white, yellow, orange or blue, if they can hire you for next to nothing while you suffer shiny jet syndrome they will!

You see now that’s the problem. You think Swire fights? just yesterday the LON base was shut and the dissolvement of CxUk has started, there’s no fight here. Swire does not have that power anymore. It wasn’t SWIRE that threw 40B on the table it was a new hkg government and what they and Beijing say happens. If pilots of other nationality weren’t an issue, well then they would be handing over visas like it’s xmas.

Btw I never meant experienced mainlanders, I’m talking about cadets. And yes of course the strategy does not revolve around pilots only but they are part of that conversation, look at the efforts to dissolve bases while hiring locals it says a lot.

My point is more that as a Cx pilot you have to know the direction this place is going and it absolutely isn’t a expat route(e.g. Singapore Airlines).

I agree with GIpilot there is zero shortage of pilots and never will be, 50% of commercial pilots worldwide are currently unemployed. Plus Air China can easily send some very experienced pilots down to HK to plug any potential shortage, which is exactly what they have done at a former Portuguese colony close to HK.

Prior to 2020 there were quite a few people who still lived blissfully ignorant, but even before that COS18 SOs were only here for rating, time and then a departure to something more sustainable. This is not just 'westerners' either; CX isn't appealing to those who are 'local' either. Aviation is no longer a safe choice of career in the city.

I don't know a single pilot who intends to stay here medium or long term including local HK pilots/cadets.

Basically the main options are:
1. Legacy airline - Mostly for F/Os who can wait the 10-15 years to upgrade, unless it's EK or QR who take DECs and they won't be looking at any for a while.
2. Contract pilot - In say, Vietnam or China depending on how well the airlines judged the numbers laid off last year and the speed of the recovery.
3. Low cost airline - Possibly back home or reasonable commuting distance. 4 sector days and bring your lunch to work with you.
4. Cargo - Less likely, freighter work will diminish as pax flights with hold space pick up.
5. Anything else, such as simulator instructor, corporate jet or air ambulance etc. Those with experience in these areas prior to joining CX have more chance.

They will never say "we don't want foreign pilots anymore" but yeah "we don't want foreign pilots anymore" if you are not working on your exit strategy already, that would be pretty naive.

another crying post... could you please name the airline and benefits that we all could happily move to?

Maybe do some research, or rather, ask one of the ~400 resignations so far this year, many of which have found other flying jobs?

Nothing is handed to you on a platter.

Everyone seems to be reposting this everywhere. They still have not recalled the thousand plus pilots from the 380. This will make up the bulk of these numbers. I cannot see any major external recruitment by EK just yet. The 350 is delayed so any chance of crew here jumping across to that is slim.

EK is not really better anyway, why bother

A valid exit strategy would be moving to a civilized place where one can expect long term stability. Therefore I would be very cautious calling EK (or any airline in the ME) a valid “exit strategy”. Just my 2c

For those who are facing upcoming visa rejections and decent jobs in their civilized world haven't opened up yet, the lesser of the :mad: options as a temporary measure makes perfect sense. Staying in cx and hk isn't a given choice for many (visa issue for one) and it's only getting worse. Hong Kong (china) is proving to be the silliest and craziest than any other. The ones who can put up with it all until it gets back to some normality are the ones with PR residency. The rest are pressured to take other options before they're suddenly rejected without a job. So yeah it makes sense for people in certain situations with much less invested in hk and cx to leave for a similar job which will last longer while civilized jobs become available.

Forgive me my ignorance but what is the trainingsbond with EK?

$40k USD 5 years I believe.

VforVENDETTA

Who in HK have applied for a visa and have it denied? (exception for based pilots)... No one. Stop spreading fear into people that are about to go through this process. People are getting their visa's. Had a friend get his on the 777 last week!

I really feel sorry for the KA pilots but all their hate towards non PR pilots in HK cannot change this. Deal with it, accept it, be patient and move on. I hear EK is hiring soon :ok:

At the moment !! HKE has been given a grace period which expires on the 17th December !!! We will see then !!! And Visas only getting renewed for 6 months unless you are in training which then gives you 3 years !!!

I have never met a pilot with an "exit strategy".

We either jump ship if we see something better, or we get pushed overboard.

To call that a strategy seems a bit inflated.

Or we know when to retire. That I would call an exit strategy ?

volare_737

Everything points towards around 60-70 people coming up for a visa renewal in February. That should be when the visa renewal extensions end. That combined with the fact that no one on a 6 month visa at UO is being trained makes for a subpar outlook. I have also heard of people having contract renewals to the end of their visa.

Does this apply to the Instagram star?

which one?
the blonde female or the handful of blokes?

Globocnik

A bit like being thrown out of a bar, dusting up in the street and then loudly declaring you did not like the service and you are now leaving for good .

I was talking about UO above but unfortunately the star would have gotten more than 6 months...

Sorry. You’ve lost me there. I got outta Dodge of my own volition some time back. Admittedly I didn’t fancy signing up for enforced incarceration.
Although it would appear that some are quite happy to accept 56 day patterns for the slim chance of getting home for 17 days ( as I assume you’d have to leave early due to a lack of reliable flights ) followed by a further 21 days locked up. Then rinse and repeat. Madness. Just plain bloody madness.

:mad:. Seems to me that the guys who quit were the smart guys. The left behinds are the losers. Suck it up.

Rie

I’ve heard the same thing re contract renewals ending on visa dates. Times are changing.

Cathay is changing and so too are the pilots. The days of recruiting foreigners and issuing visas are long gone. Will be interesting to see the outlook in a years time..

Sam Ting Wong

You're just not hanging around in the right circles, obviously! (not that you can know all 3400 pilots).

I know a few who very quietly worked their way "up the ladder" as it were, got a couple of years of training behind them and left CX (still in their 40s) for jobs in their home country. Half the pay, but for a multitude of reasons, it was worth it to them. You could (and might) argue that I cannot know their intentions, but it certainly looked like they had planned it all along.

Hello...

Everyone that wants to leave or is in the process of leaving, why not be like me. Apply for the freighter, get your 747 aircraft rating and then go get a job in your home country.
A free rating
Current

and off you go! Simple as that.

I personally know MANY people doing this right now.

you’d be silly not to! A current 747 rating is worth its weight in gold with how things are at the moment

As one of the YVR pilots kicked to the curb, I can tell you a 747 rating is not worth a sh!t without a US passport to go with it.

cxflog

I estimate my license weighs about 10 gramms, so yeah, sounds about right.

Standby, I’ll go get my scales and we can compare

herewego75

Jeez. Is that how you do it ? How naive the rest of us must have been. If only we’d known. The goony bird is pretty much a dead duck unless you’re an US passport holder. Or stay in CX and take your chances on it still being there in a year or so. Otherwise limited options in Europe, Oz etc. Gun running in the Dark Continent may be an option. Although you might end up as someone’s home boy in a jail in Kigali. And I’ve heard the medical benefits aren’t quite what they should be. The only useful rating if things do pick up is anything in the Blagnac plastique fantastique range.

Exit strategy . Yes get HGV , Heavy goods vehicle truck driving license as soon as possible. That is where the money is now.. .