NZ Base following the Aussi base. Closing. The crunch will be if the boys can get visas. I suspect they will now that the company is recruiting HKG PR pilots.

By the end of the year the bases will all be closed.

Sorry to all the guys and gals on those bases. Some great characters to fly with. They will be missed. Whatever happens, I hope they end up coming out smelling like a roses! In a word... Sad.

controlledrest

Look at my posts in this thread on 1st and 3rd May.
London will stay open.

Whilst we all admire your optimism, come on face the music....

Anyone able to confirm that the AKL FOs who stayed on COS99 and took bypass pay are now been offered POS18 with RA65? Anyone else in the company with old RA55 now on RA65?

bellcrank88

May I ask what makes you think 4 wks of severance/year is likely, and in which based jurisdiction are you thinking?
Do you have any references to the legislation on which your statement is based?

I think there are a lot of interested people who would like to know whether you are actually correct, or more likely just pontificating and believing some very wishful thinking.

Fat Cats
 

Fat Cat Prima Donna Pilots> :Yes, good question , but even if it is so , 4 weeks multiplied by 30 would only be 60 weeks, a bit more than 1 year salary. Cheap at the price. Should have been done years ago. Cathay Pacific Management ability is questionable. No wonder the share price has been falling. for a long time. Why oh why is Hong Kong Government spending billions to support this badly managed airline?..

My maths may be bad, but I don’t think it is that bad. 4 x 30 = 60? I thought it was 120, which is 2 years and 4 months pay. Not bad considering with 30 years in you wouldn’t be too far off retirement anyways.

Yes I stand corrected. Anyway should dismiss the older ones , except key instructors, first and accept the temporary set back to annual profits or losses.

YES THAT IS CORRECT. Also, technically they were on COS 2002, when NZBL was formed which was the equivalent of Cos 99

From Simple Flying web site (in case not seen)
Cathay Pacific has confirmed it will close its Australian base in July. This follows news the Hong Kong-based airline will shut its Canada base. The fate of Cathay Pacific bases in New Zealand, Europe, and the United States remain up in the air.

It would be nice to think Senior Management would analyse both the calibre of troops lost in the upcoming base closures, and the actual cost of redundancy payouts. Alas, I don't think they will give a ****, hence my decision.

You’d better have a read of the letter exchange between AOAE and the company - if you’re a member of the union that is. The company is trying to assert that redundancy doesn’t apply to the FRA closure as there is no global headcount reduction. After all, they are recruiting in HK 🙄

And Dog? They did join a HK airline.

My point is that the company will use any legalese trick in the book to wriggle out of financial obligations. It is plainly obvious that they are being made redundant but the company is trying to use the sham recruitment drive to deny them their contractual right to an extra few months of redundancy payout versus ‘voluntary’ termination. The same premise would also nullify the built-in seniority protections of the contract. Those on the US base should take note in case they think their contracts are any better.

Yes this is a HK airline, with management that without a shred of conscience will stoop as low as necessary to save a buck.

Ridiculous if true (I’m certainly not arguing!) - because in the U.K., the relocation of your work beyond a reasonable distance qualifies as redundancy, which has been tested numerous times in court.

I’m led to believe that German workers enjoy pretty robust laws and protections - so that would be surprising if they can’t protect redundancy payouts..

the company will always try their hand, I’m sure, but it won’t be over for years in that case.

Sounds like they haven’t really thought it though…

kind of seems like proper planning is out the window now.

they can’t even seem to fill the freighters at the moment.. nuts with other cargo airlines breaking records.

Fly747

They joined an airline which has its head office in HKG and offered Temp and Permanent bases in a wide range of countries.

CXDOG

100% true.

Aussi and Kiwis expected to be back in HKG by end of Sept - even though there is no real work for them. Quarantine at their own expense.

CXDOG

Same thing they told AOAA and AOA (NZ). And the bastards got away with it.

If they 'got away with it', why were the Aus-based pilots offered the option of either returning to HK or taking a redundancy, in accordance with the base closure clause of their COS?

WTF you talking about.
Redundancy (6 months basic salary) offered to Aus.

The Base Closure clauses I have seen state that officers will be offered another Home Base in the Base Area if there is a position available or a return to HKG (no ifs or buts - a return to HKG and continued employment). Redundancy pay out is not linked to Base Closure at all.

The Base COS redundancy clauses clearly state that in the event of redundancy it will follow LIFO off the Common Redundancy List. The company is not following this.

Most of the guys I have spoken to who are non-PR don't expect to get a work visa. They believe the company waited until a back room agreement was reached with IMMD so that their application for work visas will be declined, CX will claim their hands are tied and 'redundancy' is the only option.

Remember that the Aussies were on zero pay, the kiwis on about 1/2 and the Canadians offered to go onto zero pay. The company is pushing the closures so that they can make senior pilots 'redundant' in violation of the base COS LIFO and to have all pilots on POS18 back in HKG (POS18 would not be a legal contract on the bases as it gives no protection to the employees and isn't really a contract at all as anything of importance is company policy and subject to change without notice, solely at the company's discretion). The company expects most guys to either take the payout or be forced to take the payout due to lack of visa. Mass redundancies in breach of LIFO. The Hong Kong pilots are probably just thank full it isn't them (especially the 777 drivers).

That is what the bastards are getting aware with.

This isn't about survival of the company - they haven't had to draw down on the government support. This is about using covid to force employees on to Asian LCC contracts so the company can compete with the likes of HKA and GBA in the future. It is easier than making decisions to position CX as a premium carrier charging premium prices.

Any pretense of following contracts, treating employees with respect and compassion, being a 'team' and being engaged is completely gone.

Heed him. For that is the best description of what they are up to yet.

controlledrest

That is NOT true in the case of Australia. In addition to the two options you quoted, the base closure clause in the Australian agreement specifically provides the option to take a redundancy in accordance with the redundancy section of the agreement. A base closure is separate to worldwide redundancy, where LIFO would be applicable.

I wouldn't say the 777 drivers are thankful it wasn't them, we're about to get a rude awakening when CX shakes the tree and dumps half of us. Immigration visa issues can only solve a tiny percentage of CX's woes, the rest WILL be "...you have been made redundant" letters to a huge number of us. CX tried, but they failed. They held out as long as they could. Has no one really worked out why they are now suddenly changing their name? come on.. I'll give you a hint, "..the highest bidder is" First we start trimming our subsidiaries, then we close out bases, then we change our name, then we clean out a huge chunk of our non productive workforce, and then.... $$$. Yes this does come a lot from Mainland, but maybe they are a bit more financially savvy than us down here in CX dream land and have had enough.

Do you think the company have the balls to bin PRs and HKG Passport holders too, or will they be forced to bin all work visa crew first?

If they were smart they would go through performance records and any warning letters first but I cannot see the immigration department allowing that. It’ll be anyone that has no real ties to Hk to go first. Then the PR, before the HK passport holders then when it is down the the skeletal frame of its former self will the Han Chinese Locals be removed.

They will bin anyone who doesn't need to be there, it's simple cost cutting. First all the non PR's, then along with that all the people who have performance issues / warning letters on their name, then so on down the line, so no one is safe and sitting comfy. The airline will be left with their own "best of the best" hand picked guy and girls. When the airline is at the right size, fleet and staff then time for the hammer $$$ but anything CX does is at the speed of a snail with a flat tyre.

You mean best of the snivelling little children that get their brown noses into the good books by "helping" the higher ups?

Being a team should be a two way process between pilots and management. The continuous whinging of pilots on this forum, through good times and bad indicates that many pilots have not been proper team members..

if you don’t want to listen to whinging pilots don’t come to pprune.

nor sit on a crew bus or cockpit

Enjoy the HK :mad: show. I am happily done with this place.

Have to say, CX is sadly a miserable airline, even airlines that pay considerably less pre and post POS18 have happier crew front and back. Ask the DEFOs who are generally surprised by the toxic environment. A Swire born legacy?

Team ??
 

Bueno Hombre

Only two teams at CX. The one that drops the bar of soap in the shower and the one that is forced to pick it up.. You decide which is which.

FlyingNun

London just got the usual base closure negotiations notification.

Perhaps they meant cabin crew base remains open.

Keep up! will you?... That was in May. We're in July now. Who knows, maybe this signals the end of CX ???
Or worst still the end of Swire in China.

If LHR is closing, then we're doomed.
All I can say: Sosan Sosan.... two at a time.....
Let's get the hell outahere.

London closing early September apparently with those eligible, and willing, to relocate to Hkg being offered a slot. Are all those on bases being offered the same redundancy package (6 months)?