No need for concessions
CX Group reports loss of HK$4.5 billon 1/4 of this calendar year.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...-combined-hk45 At the end of March they reported they had HK$20 billon in liquidity. They then raised another HK$5.5 billon selling some old 777s. So if we are losing HK1.125 billon per month we have enough liquidity to last 22 months before calling on Swire or Qatar to provide additional liquidity or selling further assets. As a signifiant proportion of our pay is only paid if we fly (hourly duty pay), we have already made big enough concessions, let alone those who have salary reductions of 20% or 50%. Any further requests by the company are unwarranted. There is even less need for long term concessions. And yes, I do know the company will love the opportunity to stick it to use. |
Hear hear!
To be fair I could countenance more temporary concessions, let’s face it, this is the most serious crisis to face aviation in our lifetimes. However retaining their entire workforce (with an eye to taking full advantage of the eventual recovery) whilst looking for permanent concessions would indeed be an opportunistic corporate money grab. |
Fuel hedging losses....
2014 HK$3.7B 2015 HK$8.4B 2016 HK$8.4B 2017 HK$6.3B 2018 HK$1.4B 2019 HK$100M (Google search....caveat emptor) |
Originally Posted by controlledrest
(Post 10803514)
CX Group reports loss of HK$4.5 billon 1/4 of this calendar year.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...-combined-hk45 At the end of March they reported they had HK$20 billon in liquidity. They then raised another HK$5.5 billon selling some old 777s. So if we are losing HK1.125 billon per month we have enough liquidity to last 22 months before calling on Swire or Qatar to provide additional liquidity or selling further assets. As a signifiant proportion of our salaries is only paid if we fly, we have already made big enough concessions, let alone those who have salary reductions of 20% or 50%. Any further requests by the company are unwarranted. There is even less need for long term concessions. And yes, I do know the company will love the opportunity to stick it to use. |
Much of this 'loss' is a book loss, not a cash loss, so the liquidity position is even better. No reason whatsoever for concessions. Google Forbes article, things aren't aren't as bad as one would think.
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I'm astonished............. do you REALLY think that's the case? that the airline isn't going to turn the screws until you scream???? CX wasn't a brilliant investment pre-covid - right now, and with the developing political rucus with the USA it look even sicker.
You're also likely to be looking at people pulling the strings who know what the other Chinese Airlines have as T&C - they're going to compare & contrast................ You have absolutely no leverage here - if CX went bust it wouldn't be noticed - the others airlines would just step in |
Originally Posted by controlledrest
(Post 10803514)
As a signifiant proportion of our salaries is only paid if we fly,
Do you even work for CX? If you're POS18, how is it you have an opinion? |
Originally Posted by Will IB Fayed
(Post 10803743)
WTF?
Do you even work for CX? If you're POS18, how is it you have an opinion? |
Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 10803628)
I'm astonished............. do you REALLY think that's the case? that the airline isn't going to turn the screws until you scream????
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Originally Posted by Bokpiel
(Post 10804053)
I was thinking the same... Not significant at all. We aren’t cabin crew.
Don't forget we were also screwed over for 13th, the profit sharing scheme is a joke and regardless of record profits in past years we haven't received a profit share and most of us have given SLS. |
It can be safely said that the company will apply the 13th month in the same way they do the profit sharing. In other words, nothing more than a laughable sentence in our COS.
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La La La La
Originally Posted by controlledrest
(Post 10804433)
No, I REALLY didn't say that. I REALLY believe that the company will stick it to us. I also REALLY believe that in CX's case there isn't a compelling financial reason for us to be shafted. It doesn't matter what other airlines pay, with seniority most of us are stuck where we are. CX has the liquidity to ride this out without screwing us over.
What planet are you living on ? Certainly NOT the one named reality !!! |
Originally Posted by Flex88
(Post 10805105)
" CX has the liquidity to ride this out without screwing us over."
What planet are you living on ? Certainly NOT the one named reality !!! |
Looks like CX's window of opportunity to screw its employees is narrowing quickly...
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/07/stoc...lose-news.html |
Originally Posted by mngmt mole
(Post 10805774)
Looks like CX's window of opportunity to screw its employees is narrowing quickly...
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/07/stoc...lose-news.html |
The stock market doesn't "reflect" the "real economy". It looks ahead approx 6 months.... Therefore, it's telling you that things are getting better as we go forward.
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No need for concessions?
The problem isn't the need for them or not, it's whether CX can get away with forcing us to take them. And unless you believe the job market is hot at the moment, then yes, they can. When they pull a BA and dismiss everyone with 24 hours to sign POS18 (or an even POS-er 20), what do you think most will do? In fact, standby for incoming... trading has halted this morning. This storm is only starting, and we'll all pay for it for the rest of our careers. |
Cash from Quatar?
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Air China, most likely.
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Originally Posted by Yonosoy Marinero
(Post 10806240)
No need for concessions?
The problem isn't the need for them or not, it's whether CX can get away with forcing us to take them. And unless you believe the job market is hot at the moment, then yes, they can. When they pull a BA and dismiss everyone with 24 hours to sign POS18 (or an even POS-er 20), what do you think most will do? In fact, standby for incoming... trading has halted this morning. This storm is only starting, and we'll all pay for it for the rest of our careers. ”Need” and “Want” have been interchangeable verbs for years on both sides of the industrial table. For years each side has been able to industrially counter the other side’s wants. I’m honestly out of ideas to how the pilots will counter management’s wants this time. I suspect the nil all draw deadlock is about to be broken. |
No, it is Carrie Lam!
30 billion |
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3088130/trading-cathay-pacific-hal
there you go( if scmp is to be believed) |
Well, I did NOT see that coming...
Maybe the 2 advisors they put on the board can prevent the next fuel hedging or cargo fine debacle. :} |
That will finish off bases. Can’t use government money to keep people employed in other countries.
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As long as bases are cheaper by way of whatever metrics they use, they will remain.
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It’s a big, public loan that comes with board oversight. On its face, no big deal. What I’m wondering is how involved the Mainland ChiComs are in this move... They own 30% of CX and, well, 100% of Carrie Lam!
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Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific
(Post 10806274)
That will finish off bases. Can’t use government money to keep people employed in other countries.
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Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific
(Post 10806274)
That will finish off bases. Can’t use government money to keep people employed in other countries.
What BS......you’d like that wouldn’t you!! Bases are the cheapest Pilots in Cx bar none. A country mile cheaper....and they will take a 25% pay cut this year alone on top of their already 30% cheaper salaries.... |
Originally Posted by ACMS
(Post 10806296)
What BS......you’d like that wouldn’t you!!
Bases are the cheapest Pilots in Cx bar none. A country mile cheaper....and they will take a 25% pay cut this year alone on top of their already 30% cheaper salaries.... |
Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific
(Post 10806274)
That will finish off bases. Can’t use government money to keep people employed in other countries.
|
Originally Posted by ACMS
(Post 10806296)
What BS......you’d like that wouldn’t you!!
Bases are the cheapest Pilots in Cx bar none. A country mile cheaper....and they will take a 25% pay cut this year alone on top of their already 30% cheaper salaries.... |
Originally Posted by fly1981
(Post 10806334)
not cheaper than cos 18
Top increment year 17 SCN pay in Aus is still around $500,000 HKD less than HKG SCN on Cos18.. Plus based Pilots get no expat allowances at all, zip nada zilch. Their basic wage is still cheaper than HK at current exchange rates, by a country mile, then throw in the $360,000 yr housing cash and possible up to $180,000 yr education ( up to 3 kids ) and maybe ( if you’re lucky ) 13th month........ |
The fact that CL chose to save Cathay over HKA says a lot! Our pals over HKA must be bummed by this.
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Originally Posted by ChrissyPrezzie
(Post 10806361)
The fact that CL chose to save Cathay over HKA says a lot! Our pals over HKA must be bummed by this.
it appears HKA might have been saved on the QT already time will tell |
Originally Posted by ACMS
(Post 10806351)
Wrong....still cheaper than Cos18......
Top increment year 17 SCN pay in Aus is still around $500,000 HKD less than HKG SCN on Cos18.. Plus based Pilots get no expat allowances at all, zip nada zilch. Their basic wage is still cheaper than HK at current exchange rates, by a country mile, then throw in the $360,000 yr housing cash and possible up to $180,000 yr education ( up to 3 kids ) and maybe ( if you’re lucky ) 13th month........ SCN decrement |
Originally Posted by ACMS
(Post 10806351)
Wrong....still cheaper than Cos18......
Top increment year 17 SCN pay in Aus is still around $500,000 HKD less than HKG SCN on Cos18.. Plus based Pilots get no expat allowances at all, zip nada zilch. Their basic wage is still cheaper than HK at current exchange rates, by a country mile, then throw in the $360,000 yr housing cash and possible up to $180,000 yr education ( up to 3 kids ) and maybe ( if you’re lucky ) 13th month........ Using your Australian based scenario, an Aus based FO on the top increment is on about 10% more than his COS18 equivalent, including housing. When just basic wage is taken into account the Hkg FO is on 65% of the Aus equivalent. |
Originally Posted by cxorcist
(Post 10806283)
It’s a big, public loan that comes with board oversight. On its face, no big deal. What I’m wondering is how involved the Mainland ChiComs are in this move... They own 30% of CX and, well, 100% of Carrie Lam!
This will probably also mark the end to any kind of industrial action, regardless of group, the Government has specifically said they will 'speak out' when it involves 'public interest', so anything that would disrupt travel, that's it.... |
Hyg, a lot will have to happen for Swire to give up on Cathay.
It is more than just about money for the family. |
Originally Posted by Oasis
(Post 10806567)
Hyg, a lot will have to happen for Swire to give up on Cathay.
It is more than just about money for the family. |
Almost all based guys are eligible for Arapa B scale on return to HK, so the COS18 comparison is a bit flawed.
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