If you are trying to cut costs why keep the expensive staff?.

They don't care how smooth the grey beards land the plane, to the bean counters a pilot is a pilot is a pilot,

Yes.......they don't care - until they do!
When due to dilution of, or loss of, large amounts of experienced talent, that there's a headline making accident concurrent with horrendous loss of life.

So if you think keeping the expensive staff is costing a lot, then try having an accident.

Those same expensive staff have often been the focal point of negating potential incidents that only avoided being the headline news by their experience and ability in ensuring aircraft and bodies were not reverting to much smaller parts.

The problem is that everyone is looking out for themselves. Collective action by a divided pilot group is unrealistic when it's a case of senior pilots not being willing to make temporary concessions while expecting junior pilots to face redundancies. Turkey's voting for Christmas comes to mind. Self preservation is the reason the unions are so ineffective and looked upon with disdain by management. Yes seniority should be respected but tell that to someone with a young family. I'm just playing devils advocate here.

The company has us all by the balls, the industry is dead and most of the airline is grounded. We have no leverage and will have to take whatever they dish out on the chin.

Airline business have already calculated the risk of accident and have factored that in with appropriate hedges/liability protection.They have decided the risk is worth the reward.

The premium to hire Chuck Yeager versus average Nigel is not worth it.

Chuck Yeager wouldn’t have worked for the Swires anywayOver the last few weeks, he’s been responding to all manner of questions posed to him on Twitter – and giving some extremely forthright answers.

One follower asked General Yeager, lionised in Tom Wolfe’s book The Right Stuff, why he appeared to have a negative attitude towards the British.

He responded: ‘Arrogant. Nasty to Americans when we were over there saving them.

‘Nasty when I visited them a few years ago - wanted a whole lot for nothing.’

Read Robin Olds book he was of a different opinion. Yeager's biography doesn't paint him as a particularly nice character.

I think redundancies and LIFO is about as likely as getting the Chinese to admit they created the virus (not that I think they did). It aint going to happen. No way the company will lose POS18 kids to retain 30yr, ex-A-scale, non-sls taking Captain living in a serviced apartment for $105,000HKD/month. Argue the legalities of your COS all you like. It Will not happen.

I have met Chuck Yeager in person and seen him carry himself in a group of highly competent and talented test pilots (to include a pilot with two MiG kills). I can tell you definitively that he is in fact an a$$hole. That he only made one star general after his storybook career is quite indicting. That said, his accomplishments deserve our respect.

What world am I living in? Good question. Hopefully, one in which both sides honor a contract that was signed (to include LIFO), not a Chinese toilet paper contract only valid when things don’t get rough.

Privileged? Did you get that from your anthropology professor in uni? Was I privileged when I was picking sand out of my teeth, jumping in and out of chem gear on 40+ degree days, and having every imaginable size AAA shot at me? Was I privileged doing hard yards at FBOs working for flying time? Or how about flying seven legs a day for near minimum wage?

No, I don’t think so.

Privileged is when your tiger mommy fills out your CX application for you, and then you get to go on vacation to Adelaide to fly a DA-42 around the pattern. Then, poof! Magically you are qualified to fly big jets for CX while you move back in with mommy and play video games on all your time off. That’s privilege!

Did I miss something or did the Internet just raise the biggest generation of twats in the entire history of the world?

[QUOTE=cxorcist;10782458]What world am I living in? Good question. Hopefully, one in which both sides honor a contract that was signed (to include LIFO), not a Chinese toilet paper contract only valid when things don’t get rough.

Privileged? Did you get that from your anthropology professor in uni? Was I privileged when I was picking sand out of my teeth, jumping in and out of chem gear on 40+ degree days, and having every imaginable size AAA shot at me? Was I privileged doing hard yards at FBOs working for flying time? Or how about flying seven legs a day for near minimum wage?

No, I don’t think so.

Privileged is when your tiger mommy fills out your CX application for you, and then you get to go on vacation to Adelaide to fly a DA-42 around the pattern. Then, poof! Magically you are qualified to fly big jets for CX while you move back in with mommy and play video games on all your time off. That’s privilege!

Did I miss something or did the Internet just raise the biggest generation of twats in the entire history of the world?[/QUOTE

wow, this is a great spectators sport.

Looking forward to the come back.

I don't doubt that's their intent, but the contract is clear. And that's what a contract is for.

The only sticking point might be one of enforceability. There are jurisdictions where the provision is completely enforceable -- to the point of both grievance and court if violated -- and in some of these the company winds up paying for a large chunk of the process. But it's not esoteric BS; it's about as clear cut as it gets (and you can't close down an operation to evade your legitimate contractural responsibilities--not only is it illegal but you are usually found out and all of the inter-office comms get subpoenaed). And there are jurisdictions where enforcing it might be dodgy.

The company could avoid this by voluntary separations at the upper ends but will have to pay for it. Effectively paying for seniority invested and the contract they agreed. At the end of the day this might be a wise business decision and cheaper all around for everyone. What would NOT be wise is an attempt to end-run the contract and shenanigans because no matter who or what you are this tends to come back at a person.

I once asked [as a conversation starter] a newly minted 2 bar how many solo hours you have?

The ans was: zero

At least somebody gets it... No doubt this isn’t his first time around the pattern.

[QUOTE=Ecam321;10782461]While I appreciate your enthusiasm, it’s not a spectator sport. It’s a rather sad indictment of society today. The Western world is losing, not to the Chinese or other brutal dictatorships, but to itself as a self-defeating snowflake-ism takes deep root within democracies. This is what happens when academia, the media, and unelected bureaucrats get to define societal norms.

[QUOTE=cxorcist;10782501]Actually I was referring too the absolute disintegration between your ranks as being a spectators sport.

I have worked for 5 airlines in a 25 year career and never have I seen such a disconnect between the senior and junior pilots. It’s sad you guys really hate each other and wish each other ill. Its entertaining too read your posts but sad in the big scheme of things.

I’m sure your an awesome aviator but you are not the saviour of aviation, the industry would function quite happily with out you.

These snowflakes you refer too are the future of aviation, you are the past, like it or not.

The future..
 

[QUOTE=Ecam321;10782516]Hand off a career of hard work and dedication to a system hell bent on Dumbing Down the professional ranks till they fit into that nice little slot on a Directors spreadsheet.. Should the previous generation simply walk away quietly as they are continuously derided by a self serving management structure who stupidly expect apathy, OR, perhaps out of concern make some noise about ex barista snowflakes shovelled into a "job" by daddy or an incompetent and naive "People" department ?? Looks like we're going to find out !!

Too late for #CXit

Also a result of the, 'even if you come last, you get a trophy' world we live in today.

A generation with an enormous sense of entitlement.

Delta
 

15th

Delta announced that ALL of its 777 fleet + MD80s to be retired immediately.. That plus by end of the Government business assistance programs (~ August) it will have a SURPLUS of approx 7000 pilots. AA has hinted at 4800 !!!!
Passengers passing through US airports pre virus, 2.28 MILLION per DAY ! Now, 94k with no prospects of much improvement for 2 > 3 years.

Do the math...

Usual proforma being followed: first release a very downbeat article in the SCMP (....$4.5B loss in the first 4 months of the year :eek:), then quickly follow up with the unfortunate news that they need to make drastic cuts to preserve the airline (with no mention of there being any snap backs when the situation improves, of course). Been there, done that too many times over the past 30 years.

Uh... what are we supposed to do with this “math”? Not being a smart ass, but what precisely does 20k+ furloughed pilots in the US have to do with CX? I get that things are bad, really bad. So what? LIFO! If that means CX only needs 1000 pilots, then I guess my job will be in jeopardy. So be it!