PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Fragrant Harbour (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour-19/)
-   -   CHAIRMAN CUTTING A DEAL (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/616260-chairman-cutting-deal.html)

morningcoffee 15th Dec 2018 23:22

Firewall,

He was the President at the time, can you explain if he had any responsibilities at all in that position since forgetting SHP is/was a pretty major fu*k up. Kind of think that looking out for the workforce should have been job #1 well before personal crusades...........

I'll admit I had the slim chance of $204K coming my way, which may or may not match your adulation, fawning and general gushing over RF.

Do you not think the membership is owed a simple apology?

cxorcist 16th Dec 2018 03:40

Ugh, focus on the true enemy gents. CX loves this!

Liam Gallagher 16th Dec 2018 05:13

I'm with cxorcist. Take it up with RF on the forums.

Also, perhaps pay more attention to what the current GC is doing, not the previous. 2 GC members have resigned from the GC this week. That doesn't sound healthy. Perhaps your current leaders need to be asked some questions.

TurningFinalRWY36 16th Dec 2018 05:28

probably worth asking why they left the GC, it may not be because of the current leaders. In some cases personal issues arise and it means they no longer have time to serve on the GC

spleener 16th Dec 2018 08:08


Originally Posted by Liam Gallagher (Post 10336704)
I'm with cxorcist. Take it up with RF on the forums.

Also, perhaps pay more attention to what the current GC is doing, not the previous. 2 GC members have resigned from the GC this week. That doesn't sound healthy. Perhaps your current leaders need to be asked some questions.

+1

Get a [HKAOA] room please.

Amber Vibes 1st Jan 2019 08:17

I thought I read somewhere that DS et als. came right out of the gate w/ concessions before "negotiations" even began. IIRC he himself revealed that nugget before the POS18 round. That should have set off alarm bells for everyone... He always seems to be radio silent through all of the fires, including now. Not exactly characteristics of a leader....

NotHere 2nd Jan 2019 00:35


Originally Posted by Firefly47 (Post 10348547)
When the chairman said no floor.... he wasn't kidding, what a utter disgrace

Surely he meant 3rd floor..........can see him there anytime soon after this........................

RAT Management 2nd Jan 2019 05:46

Next stop DFO....

mngmt mole 2nd Jan 2019 08:36

Why is it only RL (and sounding increasingly frantic) that is trying to defend this appalling proposal? Where is DS? Why on earth did the AOA endorse this? There is NOTHING worth endorsing in what is the worst offer ever from our discredited management. NO excuse for this lame AOA exec to endorse. None.

Kendra689 12th Jan 2019 22:57

Apparently at the Focus Night RL was advising members to vote NO. So the idiots who negotiated the deal are now recommending a NO vote but the general committee is recommending a YES vote. Amateurs.

Numero Crunchero 14th Jan 2019 14:33


Originally Posted by Kendra689 (Post 10359073)
Apparently at the Focus Night RL was advising members to vote NO. So the idiots who negotiated the deal are now recommending a NO vote but the general committee is recommending a YES vote. Amateurs.

Ha ha - really? That's what he said?

People hear what they want to.


I think what was said was more along the lines of - if you do nothing, you get a nothing result. We have done nothing but CC and TB for a few years and this is the result - a HKPA offer lower than TA16. So if the intent is to vote no and do nothing for the next 2-3 years, what will the result be? Membership survey indicates that the majority will not ramp things up - yes the vocal 5% here and on forums are willing to - but the silent majority are NOT.

We have around 200TC/STC/BTC. We have lost maybe 20-30% in 3 years. Looking at demographics we are due to lose 11 more over the next two years. So that will reduce training capacity by about 5%. KA have freed up around 38TCs but not sure how many are 330 vs 320? Our training load last year was less than a third of what it was in 2015 - so we have a lot of excess slack in training at this moment. We can more than double the training load in 2019 - I suspect the 2018 under load was much in part due to the 2 SO ops - it would have saved around 130 FO slots for them. Plus we recruited around 100 less than planned.

So will the TB work in time? We need about 50TCC/STCs or so for the minimum level of licensing(though some sims can be done by those over 65). We need around 5 or so to cover RA55/65 departures(CN/FO/SO courses) For attrition we would need maybe 30ish to replace say 100 pilots. We are due to lose around 34 more TC/STC/BTC over the next 5 years so that will reduce their current training capacity by 15%! (again assuming no one leaves the union to join training)

So is the TB the silver bullet everyone assumes?

Focus night
So what was ACTUALLY said was - if it is a yes vote, make it 51% so CX don't think it was over generous - if it is a no vote, make it 95% so they know how unhappy we are. But keep in mind - if you continue to do nothing then nothing is what you will get as it will take years for the TB to bite. You think we will keep the same resignation rate of TCs? Maybe the TCs who resigned are all those that would take the moral high ground of leaving. The rest will be on good overtime. So what rate will we lose TCs in future? What rate will others cross the line?


What was also said at a focus night was - even if the NC and GC were incompetent, the membership get to decide by a democratic vote. So please enjoy your conspiracy theories - they make for fun bar talk. I still haven't got my pony but I am hopeful.

kenfoggo 14th Jan 2019 21:16

Numero Crunchero, how many Members have quit the HKAOA since the “Yes” recommendation by the GC ?

cxorcist 14th Jan 2019 21:24


Originally Posted by kenfoggo (Post 10360768)
Numero Crunchero, how many Members have quit the HKAOA since the “Yes” recommendation by the GC ?

I’m guessing very few. Why? Because they want to vote NO first. Then they will quit, and the HKAOA will officially become an eunuch, almost there...

mngmt mole 14th Jan 2019 22:49

I have a simple question for Numero Cruncher (and the rest of the GC/NC). How could you possibly "recommend" this appalling offer to the membership? Yes, you can present it, but "recommend" it? No credibility left whatsoever. In fact, I suspect you may have killed off the AOA. The recommendation was bad enough, but your constant efforts to justify your decision is only leaving an even more bitter taste in peoples mouths. First we'll vote this monstrosity down, then we'll turf out the current leadership of the AOA.

kenfoggo 15th Jan 2019 01:15

And then.......what? Mngmt Mole? What will you do?


Air Profit 15th Jan 2019 03:49

Ken, MM and I (and many like us) will do what we've always done. Vote our conscience and deal with the outcome. We've rejected the company's proposals (final, according to them) before, and they have come back with more pay and benefits. This is the worst proposal in my career. It's an insult and a shot across the bow's of any career worth having at CX. At this point, I would rather force the issue and determine once and for all whether there is a career at CX or not. Voting "yes" on this monstrosity will only empower the management to strip away the last vestiges of value. So take your childish taunts elsewhere. You sound like a management sycophant.

(and as to MM's question to the GC/NC, yes...how on earth could you "recommend" this sickening proposal?)

Threethirty 15th Jan 2019 04:34

If the company had offered a 5% pay cut the NC would have recommended a yes vote!

reazasassain 15th Jan 2019 05:39

Sorry but we need to stop the Bull ****. Numerocruncho is trying to justify why you are getting a piece of crap offer. If your leverage is proportional to the quality of the offer then you are being sold short. One of the duties of your representation is to take responsibility and be accountable. They are tasked with increasing the leverage of the membership and acting in your best interests. Unfortunately since the lame duck Sprinkle Soligo has taken over he has done nothing to escalate CC. In fact he has only worked with the company to provide concessions amongst the pilots, HPE was a prime example where he was committing an astronomical amount of concessions that would have cost you well over a Billion dollars, yes that's with a "B" BILLION. However the GC was not blind to this and realized that there was no way in hell the membership would ever vote for such a pathetic offer and HPE failed miserably costing the AOA millions in the process.

Fast forward to today and now you are presented with another concessionary piece of **** offer which was facilitated by the lame duck Chairman. He has not acted in your best interests and has let the CC strategy weaken as a result. The special levy was meant to be used as a tool to increase the pressure but then it was only used to fill the coffers of the association. When it comes to credibility you would be hard pressed to find any in the leadership. It is rumored that he even lied about resigning from training. Other questions have been raised about his status while on sick leave. Was he compromised and is he fit to lead the 2400 members of the HKAOA?

I would like to see a leader who would not present an offer to the members when it falls significantly short of an acceptable offer.

Another quote that was made at the focus night was from Daryl, he said it takes courage to say yes. How about it takes courage to lead.

So RL please stop trying to spin this crap because deep down you know it is wrong and unacceptable.

Amber Vibes 15th Jan 2019 05:59

Amen. The fish rots from the head.

Flying Clog 15th Jan 2019 14:51

Amen to the Assassin


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:29.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.