Tired of hearing about these poor SAA crew that are gonna join and do too our crew what is happening to them in their home country!!! They are willing to step over our crew and careers for themselves which is not required when airline companies from Western Countries are offering people with a Pilot License, visas/immigration and jobs.

A few comments based on some of the previous posts. Most of us DO care about the plight of the 747 pilots. What is being done to them is a disgrace, and frankly it isn't a job that is sustainable. As for the SA pilots, they are welcome, on the bottom of our seniority list, same terms. However, if they are offered a 'sweetheart' deal, then they must expect some serious pushback. As for "who's to blame" for the current situation (including the company floating this trial balloon with the SA pilots), we are to blame. We can't expect people to fight our fight for us, especially when they aren't even working here yet. The 747 pilots need to 'demonstrate' to the company that they won't be abused (fill in the blank on that one...) and the rest of us must make it clear that CC and the TB will continue and even strengthen until this management comes to their senses. WE have to push back, and it's time that happened. My own gripe is towards my former C and T members. Gents/ladies, it's time to do the right thing. We can't be seen to be supporting the actions of management with training of what is evidently replacement pilots (I am referring to the SA issue in particular). To date, three of my colleagues have assured me that if the company hires them on anything other than bottom of seniority positions, or with a special 'commuting' option, they will resign. The rest of you now need to resolve to do the same. I might add to all the rest of you the fact that many of the TC and TCC pilots have refused ugrade to STC. That is at a significant cost, so please don't berate them for simply being in the training dept. However, the time has come I believe to now take that next step and resign altogether. I expect nothing less (other than the 'Prancing Carrot' who will probably volunteer to train all the SA pilots himself!).

Ideally that would be the case. But the HKG system fails to produce people for jobs in aviation.
What we are talking about in this situation is people being hired out of seniority for jobs that people on the seniority list are capable of performing. It’s called union busting. If we allow that to happen?? We have no one to blame for our continuing decreasing package than ourselves.
When is the hiring ban going to be announced? When is the HKAOA finally going to say enough and walk? Probably the day after the company has trained their replacements.

If I understand correctly, HKAOA members are in contract compliance, with a training ban in force , yet CX has been hiring DEFO and they have received training for the last year or so?

Has the HKAOA put out a request for mutual assistance via IFALPA, like the Air Mauritius Pilot body did recently? Not that I am aware of.

The HKAOA website seems silent on this matter, and without their guidance I would think it difficult for a potential employee to make an informed and ethical decision.

Now there’s a logical post! HKAOA needs to grow a pair, like yesterday. DEFO in HK should have been banned straight away, but better late than never. DEFO counter acts the TB, why wouldn’t it be banned? As for trainers, well, you all know where I stand... It’s past time guys!

My heart is perfectly fine. I have no problem with anyone from anywhere applying to CX and starting at the bottom of the seniority list. We don’t require direct entry Captains. CX has plenty of suitable pilots already in the ranks. Now Scoot is a different story. I can’t comment on them. I am not with Scoot and don’t care about what problems they have or don’t have. I think we at CX have plenty of our own problems to deal with.

How would SAAPA respond?
 

While I feel for the plight of those SAA pilots that may be retrenched/furloughed, there has been plenty of opportunity over the years for these pilots to leave and carve out a career at another carrier overseas. I personally know some that have, even throwing away 12+ years of seniority in the process, so there is no excuse really, those that stayed, made that conscious decision.

The truth is, there are so many Saffa pilots here and in the ME, what SA pilots in general and SAA pilots in particular, need to ask themselves, how would they feel and how would SAAPA respond if these pilots were to return home and join SAA as DEC’s and DEFO’s?

Not with sympathy and understanding would be my guess.

Don't for a second think, they won't bring their own. Step aside, work to be done.

Thanks Curtain Rod,

I am pleased that has all happened. I’m not “in the know”, hence my questions. I wish every CX pilot strength in their dealings with management.

If you need guidance on promises made and broken then speak to the instructor pilots from the in house training school in Adelaide .. a total ass about face on promises made followed by a f..k you lawsuit .. followed by a large cash payout and yet another black chapter in the long litany of lies and deceit perpetrated by this dispicable mob on their employees. Promises made to the SAA guys will be reneged upon in the most foul manner starting with ‘rosters’ This company cannot exist without free reserve O and A days all unpaid and last moment crisis crewing. If anyone thinks they can commute to SA in the real world of hk aviation Labour ... think again ..
There is NOTHING stable or manageable about scheduling here.

Should the HKAOA request that SAAPA direct their members to not join CX, that would be the instruction. SAAPA probably hate managers more than you guys do.

CXORCIST, check your posts to get your story straight. You said you weren't here in 95 so you are not to blame for allowing the company to start the rot back then. But you were here in 2001. And yet you claim you joined as a DEFO. That means you joined via ASL and I don't think you did (I certainly didn't see you there) or as an early freight guy. So even if you did join as DEFO you joined at a time when the company was taking FO jobs away from their pilots and handing them over to ASL or hiring freight guys on lesser terms and replacing these jobs with SOs. If you joined as SO, which I know you actually did, you joined at a time when the company was taking FO jobs away from their pilots and handing them over to ASL or hiring freight guys on lesser terms and replacing these jobs with SOs. Get the pattern here? I was also beneficiary of this approach but I am not complaining, you are.


You badmouth people who work hard to get into a profession and are met with bad luck beyond their control. And yet you got to where you are by doing exactly what they are doing. I know this is a bleeding rumour network but please get your story straight and stop bashing people who just want to earn a living. Why don't you just go to the US majors? They're hiring. Or SAS - oh wait.

What the ex-SAA guys and girls need to know is that CX recruitment will lie to them to get them in.

No matter what they are told there can be:

1) No DECs (every COS in CX only allows promotion iaw seniority),
2) No JNB basing (a hell of a lot of guys senior to you have wanted that for decades),
3) Any "commuting roster" will be around 21 days in length and involve travelling to West-coast of USA and back (ie. massively fatiguing).

They really need to understand that.

4). Position will be Freighter only. NOT Airbus.

Because if I am to believe what I hear, there will be a riot on the Freighter if SAA get onto the pax fleet before them.

But then again, I don't recall any planes being grounded due to a massive sickout when Housing was threatened in 3 months or when Captains were not paid 35K. Even Mr "The guy I just flew with, has his application in with Qantas" didn't pull a Sickie.

And if they do end up on the 330, find me a 330 FO who is getting more than 8 days off a month at present. Their rosters are shocking.

Reading all of this just confirms that this company is broken beyond repair. Destroyed by managers who had no understanding, or value for the employees who they should have been nurturing and respecting. Instead, they have abused them over a period of 20+ years to the point that almost the ENTIRE pilot force tries to help them bring the airline down. This must be the most toxic airline on earth. Well done Swire. :D

Nothing will be fixed. In fact, it will get much worse, then collapse suddenly. This management is incestuous, and because they can't be held to account, they remain in place to ensure the total destruction of this airline. It is beyond saving, and the only people who can't seem to see it are the very managers who are running around with their hair on fire blaming everyone but themselves. RH, you and your entire management team are an abject disgrace.

If only that were true, what about all those heroes helping out the company with commanders discretion when there was FG in Hong Kong!

The two statements are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, there will always be "heroes", but I agree that more and more are actively working against the company. And for good reason.

"live in Singapore"

yeah,please do due diligence.

Read 'Hardwearzone EDMW'.


go in with your eyes open.