The Latest Act of Desperation
 

It seems that management are seeking out the more "junior" pilots and engaging them in conversation, the gist of which is to ask them what they are paying for rent, and then suggesting that such sums are affordable and reasonable, as well as the size of apartment (450 sq/ft in Tung Chung, 20K/mo...wow, you LUCKY chap!). They are also telling them that the company is "overstaffed" with pilots and that they are luck to have the job.

This is yet another sign of a management in the throes of desperation (and who amongst you upstairs can be convinced to take part in such a pathetic charade?, the cast of usual characters comes to mind). This airline and it's flight operation is about to implode. Now all they have left in their jar of tricks is a pathetic attempt at reverse psychology. One of the FO's who was involved told me that the manager "reeked" of desperation and insincerity, and it was all he could do to not laugh in his face (quote).

So AT, RH and co, is this really what your vast educational background has brought you to?, trying to manipulate younger pilots who have already made up their mind to leave anyway (as was the FO who relayed this story, awaiting course date back home). It would be funny if it wasn't SO sad and SO pathetic.

Know that every FO/SO is onto your little game, is contemptuous of it, and the managers involved. You lost nearly everyone of our aircrew over the past few years. You have no credibility, and this little stunt only confirms to most of them that the sooner they get out of CX the better. Don't try telling a Canadian/USA/European that he/she should be grateful living in a shoebox, with poor pay, poor benefits and even poorer chances of a stable and properous career. For that they know the answer lies with an airline back home, which at least has sane managers. Needless to say, not much chance of ever finding that here.

Easy answer to when they go like that is point that they are such good managers that they should help out the company so much they should live in our shoeboxes as well so they can do their bit for TTW.

Managment normally reply “dont take that tone with me...”

A good life’s lesson is ya gotta be careful who you trust.

And that not everyone is as honest as you might be.

Amen brother. So true. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been burned by trusting and being loyal to people because I expected them to be like me.

There seems to be a quite a lot of unsanctioned questioning going round at the moment...anyone looked at the recent letter from the Chairman to the GMO?

Who ever actually penned Darryl's letter did so with exemplary skill. What a pity the distribution list stopped at the DFO!

CX is losing billions, and the Swires have no idea what is going on? If so, they are either complicit in the losses or totally incompetent at managing their own businesses. I strongly believe it’s the former. The Swires are pillaging this airline of its cash through fuel and currency hedges. What other explanation makes sense?

CR. Maybe time to take a breath and step back?
Swires know exactly what is going on. It is about a long term strategy and return on investment. Ask yourself where Swires are concentrating their efforts and with which major partner. HK has had its day and CX doesn’t fit with the geopolitics. The Mainland is where profit is to be made.
There is a lot more to this if you wish to dig: CX is a mere pawn.

Please expand on this... I have looked extensively and cannot figure out what the Swires are getting at. Taking all the cash out of the airline only makes sense if the intention is to sell the airline for planes, parts, and routes. The problem with that is that shareholder value is destroyed along with the balance sheet. So unless the Swire shares can retain value while the public shares are trashed, I don’t get it. Obviously, the employees will be left with no place to sit when the music stops playing.

Follow the money. Take a look at a cash strapped supply chain company in Singapore with strong Swire Connections and look at the time line comparisons with Swire partnerships and takeover deals.

Well, that’s juicy. I’ll look. Got any key words for my search?

The word for your search is alchemy

Ask yourself why was Haeco moved out of cx into Swire , why was the trail of us signing in at the airport terminated? Who owns HAS busses?

Follow the money! They know exactly what is goining on. The hedge is going to be the biggest heist in aviation history.

We have no new aircraft orders beyond 2020...that is when we become a Chinese airline.

We already are.

HAS is 100% owned by CX.

There are 49 aircraft on order beyond 2020 (5 A350, 21 B777X, 23 A321)

Cathay & Dragon became Chinese airlines in 1997 - the registration on the aircraft starts with a B from then

(not defending CX, but do try and get facts correct)

I see UPS ordered an additional 14 -8 Freighters yesterday (and they pay high salaries and proper benefits). Obviously their management are idiots :rolleyes:

There’ll be a fair number of CX pilots flying those new aircraft I would think!

Especially when the US Govt approves the hiring of foreign pilots, which is awaiting approval.

until Trump vetoes it!

Do you have any background info on that ? Perhaps a link to a government website where it's discussed ?

Guess each Major’s 10,000 applications on file isn’t enough.

But you guys keep planning on the the US Majors hiring foreigners... let us know how that works for you.

Not even going to get into the debate. All you need to do is correlate the number of retirements, the planned number of hires, the fact that the military is recalling thousands, and the fact that there has been a dearth of people learning to fly for 15-20 years. Even without the fact that I have it on good authority that it is being discussed by the airlines and the government, the facts mentioned above clearly say something drastic has to happen. I realise that you 'americans' don't like the idea of 'ferreners' coming over, but it will happen. They did it in the 1960's, so it's not a precedent being set.

It's difficult to dispute what you say without seeing the same info you have.

Can you share your "good authority" with us ?

Actually I can't, but that's irrelevant to the facts. Ultimately, i'll be proven right, or wrong. I have no problem with that.

You Cathay guys just can't help yourselves. Wow. Was it a perquisite to joining CX to :mad: as much as you do?

Glad you have it on "good authority" that it's going to happen. "Latest Act of Desperation" indeed... just from mngmt mole and his like. You got any financial advice while you're at it?

A very good and long time friend is the head of training of a major US airline. I can confirm what MM is saying. Timeline unknown, but it will come to pass. As he mentioned, you only have to look at the facts of the industry and the manning situation to realise that such a move is more than likely. Not sure why such a suggestion is getting you guys so riled up. It's like you have a personal agenda that is at stake (oh, like management of our airline). :rolleyes:

Yeah... sorry calling B.S. out on that too. No Legacy carrier, Southwest, UPS, or FedEx will ever be sponsoring foreign pilots. EVER. There will NEVER be a shortage of pilots at these carriers. But keep thinking otherwise, Air Profit!

There are a few regionals taking E3 visas from a few Aussies who are willing to whore themselves out at the expense of all other pilots, but that's as far as these foreign pilots will only go in the USA - the subpar regional level.

Like another poster said above, the above airlines all have 10,000+ applications on file, and that will never change. There will never be a shortage at that level.

Keep believing in your self importance however and how much the US really needs you... it is entertaining to read how completely out of touch you are in your CX bubble.

And we are all losing sleep over your calling a 'bs'. :rolleyes: And your "10000" will prove to be about 1 yrs worth of actual available hires. Again, go and have a think about the actual facts of the demographic tidal wave that's about to hit the industry. Regardless, none of us really KNOW what is going to happen, even you.

It very well may happen at some point in the future, but I would be very surprised if it were ‘imminent’, certainly not with Trump in office. What it won’t do is change things materially at CX now. There is plenty of pilot hiring, both in the US and around the globe. If you want to leave CX, you can unless you are a SO with little to no previous time.

So in reality, those of us still here are simply finishing up our careers OR gambling against bad odds that CX will turn around its fortunes. The seniority system, ‘golden handcuffs’, and fear of change are the only things keeping reasonable pilots at CX.

Those coming in newly to CX are either using it to start their careers and leave OR are absolutely insane. There is very little that is good for a new hire at CX. It truly is a job of last resort and a place I could not in good conscience recommend to anyone.

cxorcist, completely agree. Very well put, and a warning to the wise. Anyone who comes here WILL regret that decision. Save yourselves the agony (especially if you are married) and establish a career with an employer deserving of your dedication and loyalty. CX is not that place. They will chew you up and spit you out.

AP,

Can you at least reveal the context in which your airline friend made his remarks ?

Was he merely musing on the potential need for expats at the US legacy level at some undefined point in the future...or saying there are processes now being put in motion with the appropriate government agencies to allow expats other than the Aussies' E3 demographic ?

Throw us some crumbs here ! :confused:

He's the head of training for one of the US majors. All the US airlines have had preliminary discussions with the Government, laying out their concerns regarding replacing the record number of retirements about to hit the industry. There are not enough qualified pilots in the US to fill all the slots opening up over the next 5-10 yrs. I have no idea what the eventual outcome will be, or the timeline, but something has to happen with this issue in order for the US airline industry to continue to function.

Air Profit

Wow, where to start. I know the command course at CX is about how well you can bullsh*t, but outside the Cathay bubble, it can be spotted a mile away. It's painful how ignorant you come across.

So there are secret meetings going on with The Big 3, Southwest, FedEx and Delta with the US Government about hiring foreigners, and your "friend" at an unnamed "major" and you are the only ones who know. Sounds legit.

As I'm sure you're aware, the above airlines have about 70,000 pilots. Let's be conservative and say 50% of of these pilots retire in the next 10 years, or 3,500 pilots a year.

The average compensation these days at these airlines in over 200K, topping out above 400K, with great work rules and retirement, etc. Do you really think they will not be able to find qualified Americans for these positions? Are they that undesirable?

I mean I know, the US has an almost non existent military, a tiny GA scene, and basically zero aviation universities. It's going to be extremely hard for them to recruit 3,500 pilots a year. Where are they going to come from? Thank goodness for CX pilots! Never mind all poorly qualified guys/girls with thousands and thousands of hours of TPIC airline time who have been waiting for years to get called by one of these airlines.

Maybe you should post on Yammer how CX better be careful before all their pilots get sponsored visas from the US Legacies, Air Profit! It would be par for the course with the rest of the garbage on there.

Actually, you are both wrong. It is not all foreign pilots that will be permitted, just Canadians. Negotiators have often tried to have pilots exempted in a similar fashion to other professionals who are able to work in the U.S. but the ALPA lobbyists always made sure to squash it. Not so anymore. Canadian pilots will soon be welcome to live and work in the U.S. It's mostly inconsequential as the Canadian aviation labour market while healthy is small. It is pretty interesting for CX though. Plenty of Canadians in HK willing to go fly the freighter in exchange for being back in North Am...

quite sad to see this bickering, just like a bunch of kindergarten kids. I am pretty sure the people running airlines do not bicker like this but actually engage, constructively, to achieve mutual goals. They must love seeing this nonsense going on, divide and conquer at it's best.

When will the greater pilot group worldwide wake up?

Well said.

Divided we all fall. That's why the CX bosses are winning & you're losing.

Although US immigration law is rooted in statute (and sometimes influenced by court decisions) the policy of admission (i.e. the specifics of who gets in on the appropriate visa and how many) is largely determined by executive policy and is an executive function.

Trump is the chief executive.

I read it on the internet so it must be true...

Keep grasping at straws!

Trump is not a big fan of outsourcing jobs. It was one of the major tenets of his presidential campaign. I’d be surprised if he would sign any such legislation, not in his first term anyways.

AP,

No doubt about it and it's been publicly covered. I didn't realize that's the talks to which you were referring.

The USAF and several major carriers (UAL & DL among them) here formed committees to examine this issue. I posted several articles somewhere in R & N discussing this.

To my knowledge, nothing definitive came of it all. The recent legislative effort to alter the 1500-hour law to get people in the system faster has fallen flat due to political wrangling. Not sure where that goes from here.

There's certainly pressure on the system. As far as I know, nothing definitive has been implemented to change the present course of events.

Seats WILL be filled here, I'm confident of that.