13th Month
 

About that time of year. No, not you KA...
So straw poll time.
Will we or won’t we?

We will.
BUT the company might put some constraints on !

Then we simply ‘recoup’ the difference by other means. Not that difficult. Time to stop being taken for “kitties”. ( you can do the translation )

NO. But prepared to be genuinely surprised.

Can I make a suggestion. Stop telling our management that we think we won't get the 13th month. All you do is effectively cast a vote for that outcome. I believe that our management is :mad: scared of the developing situation. They have an exponentially increasing resignation rate, a cabin crew complement that is at the point of insurrection, and ground staff that only need ONE excuse to resign and join a better company. I would suggest that our management had better be fully aware that many of us need only one slight push further in the direction of abuse and they will unleash an unstoppable exodus from this airline (and that is not suggesting that they haven't already passed the point of no return on that score, as I suspect). Make it plainly clear that we and our family's will not pay for their incompetence. Further, that any 'cost cutting' can only take place AFTER they have exploited the obvious savings regarding expanding basings and more efficient rostering (CMP). Until then, pay me, and acknowledge that I am already behind on pay and benefits compared to my country equivalent. I might also add that our wholly owned and smaller subsidiary will be receiving theirs. Are we any less deserving? Go ahead CX, take that last suicidal step towards oblivion.

The aim of the cynical Swire so-called-Management Yes Men was to reach rock bottom on everything except their own salaries and bonuses. I would suggest that they have at least achieved that - unfortunately accompanied by a disastrous multi billion dollar cock up in the Fuel Hedging department that makes them look stupid and incompetent which of course - they are.
Never in the field of human business endeavour have a group of total idiots been responsible for the effective demise of a once thriving and happy operation. Shame on you.

I bet that all depts will get 13th month except the pilots. Just to twist the knife a little bit more.

I bet that will be illegal. Next.

Yes and we all know how worried Cathay is about breaking the law...

Arfur
 

Don't mean to be unnecessarily picky Arfur however, at CX, the term "Management" is no longer used.. The preferred term is now "Leadership" in all company communications.
Apropos in my opinion as "Management" infers a certain amount of skill and "Leadership" can simply mean "hey you, follow me off this cliff"..

Mngmt Mole has it right. They need to try and get the pilots back onside if they want to make this company work. Not paying 13th month would be another schoolboy error in a long list of previous schoolboy errors.

Cabin crew,gnd staff and other small fish depend on 13 month to pay income tax.

Maybe check out definition of condescending when you have a minute?

Not paying us 13th month would almost take care of the 10 percent cost savings they want from FOP.
Oh wait, they wouldn't want to forgo on the 13th month AND ask for 10 percent, would they?

Flex-
Hence my use of the expression "so-called". Not a single original thought amongst all those Oxford degrees. Is it the same in the bottling, shipping and property arms of the Swire portfolio?

No one is getting 100k a month into a mortgage. Don’t know who is feeding you that info.

Don’t feed the troll. Cx reject.

FAU has told it's members not to expect 13th month this year.

Local staff union the same. Both FAU and local staff unions « onboard » with respect to cutbacks etc. And the company has just made 600 office staff redundant and are planning further at outports. So of course they are going to pay 13th month.

Then the company is guaranteeing an accelerated resignation / sickness rate. Bring it on. Most of the pilots I am flying with are actively looking to leave. This will only magnify that trend. Most of the pilots can barely afford to live on the income they have as it is, never mind doing without the 13th month. I know of many pilot's who can't afford to support their families (school fees, debentures, school trips, medical, travel to their home countries, etc). Don't pay the 13th month and see just what you reap regarding your operation.

Well, Frank was a thug, as is our management. I won't be here for long, as i've done my time. You miss the point however. The 13th month is being paid to KA staff. They also have better housing and higher salaries. CX staff have been attacked constantly for 25 years. For the first time, there is a genuine pilot shortage developing worldwide. CX pilots don't need to waste their careers working for an employer who denigrates and humiliates them at every turn. To not pay the 13th month would only help reinforce the pointlessness of wasting your career with this company. So please, don't pay the bonus, and help hundreds of pilots decide that they are better off being elsewhere. The tide is turning, and CX management are too arrogant and too blind to see the world is changing around them. If they want to withhold the 13th month, and cut my provident fund and housing....I think that will be quite enough to see most of us moving on. And btw Anti...it's not just about me.

And what of this...

Those approaching command as SFOs on bases. What package would they be coming to HK on? What about a NJer? What will they be getting in the future? So many questions, so few answers. CX better eliminate the uncertainty soon or they will just be helping those outside HK now to make an easy decision even simpler. I think I’ll be getting my home country’s medical cert on my next HKCAD renewal. Glad CX makes it so easy to leave.

Capped.
30 grand or one month, whichever is less.
Standard CX.

Ah....so the ONLY people not getting their proper bonus will be HK based pilots. Out of the whole company. I see. Well, we all know exactly how to redress that attack on ourselves and our families don't we. :ok:

Very grey argument, but I'm sure it suits your strategy of sending everyone over the top of the trench whilst you're blowing a whistle.

Now listen, the significant improvements KA received came about due a CC campaign that had folks like yourself trying to resign via ACARS. It was a decimation that had CX sending over their managers with olive branches and a policy of bringing the KA package up toward the CX pilots. Their words in their Back On Board campaign.

KA pilots are under no illusions as to what may be coming. Morale is worse than the height of CC- admitted by management. To draw KA pilots into another CC campaign in my opinion, would wreck the group. And I think my colleagues know this, the fragility of the operation and its management, a potential exit strategy is essential. But there's no fanfare or tears, this is just a hat-less contract job

Now you need to be told Trafalagr, nick off. We aren't your enemy. It's the goons you see at immigration who work for the two low cost pilot jobs in Hong Kong, that have our management scratching their heads as to why they pay as they do, and why jets don't fall out of the sky.

Gnads,

Don't take him the wrong way. I am glad you KA pilots are receiving your 13th month and wish you all the best. I have much more respect for you than the bulk of the CX pilot group.

Ours used to be contractual as well, just another one of the many degradations we have allowed over the years without standing up for ourselves. Let's hope you all can stand your ground better than us.

Gnadenburg. I don't recall mentioning that KA pilots are the 'enemy'. I don't begrudge your T and C's. Just pointing out that CX pilots are being treated even worse. I am glad you have the benefits you do, and support them. I don't believe in tearing the 'top down', but building the 'bottom up'. I am fully supportive of the KA and CX pilots working together to take this management head-on. Best to you.

Yes Traf I accept that. My apologies for the ad hominem attack. The mods have seen fit to redact my post anyway.

Another useless post that can only raise blood pressure. How about we wait until it happens?

"Now listen, the significant improvements KA received came about due a CC campaign that had folks like yourself trying to resign via ACARS. It was a decimation that had CX sending over their managers with olive branches and a policy of bringing the KA package up toward the CX pilots. Their words in their Back On Board campaign."

Yeah, another great historic KA pilot victory!

CX sent their managers over and
yes, the CX 'chequebook' trick worked, CC campaign and resignations or not.

Nearly 200 Dragonair staff were made redundant, many more after having signed over to CX.

Except pilots and cabin crew the remaining staff had to sign over on a new contract with CX, cargo routes given away to CX, KA positions lost, the B747's, HIAS, KA Flight Training Centre, LSG sky chef part ownership were taken away and Dragonair Cargo, engineering, IT, finance, accounting and the rest of the airline closed.

KA has since been described by analysts as “basically a contract carrier” for its parent airline, a group of pilots and cabin crew.

"CX managers came with olive branches". Really?

The CX management got everything they wanted, Dragonair and Dragonair Cargo was no more

I’m having trouble following you Tsim. Everything Gnad’s said is 100% correct. A CC campaign was supplemented by a large resignation rate and the subsequent improvement to terms and conditions was quite significant. All signed off by a CX manager who was sent over to ‘sort the mess out’. Which he did quite quickly with a chequebook. I just wish someone up the food chain had the sense to rectify your predicament the same way.

You are having problems following me.
Where is that great airlines, Dragonair and Dragonair Cargo?

Yes, the CX 'chequebook' trick worked, CC campaign and resignations or not.

Smoke and mirrors and it was all gone!
Master magician Harry Houdini could not have done it better.

And where will you be shortly, on what contract and with whom?
13th month?

The CX management got everything they wanted, without you even realized what happened!

They can't cap the 13th month. It is "defined" as one month basic pay.
They can and have capped the profit share which is very different.
In certain jurisdictions like France and Spain the 13th month is payable to ground staff no matter what the operating profit or loss but Swire's keep that little gem quiet.

True you can't cap 13th month, wish we got it, but unfortunately, for a long time now we get an 'annual discretionary bonus' which is mostly paid in the form of a months salary, but these clowns make it up as they go along.

Do any of you actually want 13th month? Curtain Rod and a bunch of you argue that we were wise to turn down a pay raise because the company were never going to pay it. Though they’ve been paying pay raises when contractually obliged to at least 200,000 staff for the last 70 years.
So why are you asking for 13th month, when apparently even if the company announce they’re going to pay it, the militant amongst us are convinced they probably won’t.
Better still, if it’s paid why don’t we further cut off our nose to spite our face and give the money back.

I suggest you read your COS if you are CX.
In COS 99 it’s stated in 9.5. Annual Discretionary Bonus.
It’s pretty clear.

Morningcoffee. Your management drivel is really tiresome. And please, don't make me laugh about CX honouring anything to do with contracts. They are the poster child for moral failure on that score. As mentioned before, don't pay the 13th month and you will quickly see that it will have cost you far more, both in the deterioration of the operation, more resignations and more malaise amongst the remaining crew, who basically don't really give a :yuk: anymore. I for one will recoup my '13th' month in other ways. It really is a zero sum game, but the arrogance of your group of incompetents don't reaslise that you have lost control of the eventual outcome: we have the control, and over the next 18 months you will come to see that your aircraft will effectively become the worlds most expensive paperweights. :D

It's sad that a Union has so many members, yet so few Union Men

Perhaps the best quote I’ve read on Pprune in years.

Let's get one thing straight.

Until we park the jets, they can, and will, do what they want.