Anna's Friday Liar. 13/10/17
 

Dear Anna,

I cannot let your F Liar pass without comment. So, to help clarify a few things, please take note:


Regarding the JRC Negotiating Framework: you state that “this is a great example of how we can work together”.

You and I both know this is complete ‘bullsh*t’. There is no ‘working together’. Only intimidation and threats. Not a single pilot in this company is under any illusion otherwise. We know the type of manager you are, and are making our plans accordingly. We also know that you and your management group will corrupt and distort any agreement and mechanism entered into. We have a 25 yr history to reference.

“The updates we have put out about our business ‘performance’ and the reason for making changes to our cost base and the way we work so that ‘we’ are more productive have understandably generated ‘quite a bit of interest’ from the pilot community”.

Seriously. Are you for real? “Business Performance”…? You and your ilk are responsible for the epic fuel hedging loss, that has undone years of committed, professional and dedicated application of ‘real performance’. We are accountable, you and your accomplices are plainly not.

“We”…?

“We” are already productive. Many of us doing 900 hours a year. Minimal days off. The worst rostering in the major airline industry. Don’t talk to us about ‘we’. There is no 'we'. There is ‘you’, and ‘us’. We are honourable. You and your cohorts had your integrity stripped away years ago.

“Quite a bit of interest from the pilot community’’…?

"Interest; is that how you define it? You are without shame. You are threatening our security, lifestyle, financial planning, contracts, family plans, retirement and general well being. “Interest”….? Far more than that. What you have ‘generated’ is a sense of malice that will take years to resolve. We will confront you starting now. On every level, every sphere of the public, media and corporate. You will be made to acknowledge and realize that you can’t abuse us, can’t threaten us and can’t compromise our integrity and professionalism.


We are NOT your slaves Anna. We certainly will NOT contribute one penny to your bonus and salary. You have made enemies of over 3000 professional aviators. We will be heard. Don’t plan on a quiet holiday season. I suggest you start planning on how you will cope without a training department.


To put all of this in context: I have not heard one word from you, Rupert and the other Swire incompetents about how YOU are taking the FIRST cuts in salary, the FIRST cuts in bonus and the FIRST cuts in housing. That would require REAL leadership, the one thing your Swire experience has stripped you of. That and integrity, honesty and humility.

There is no going back. We will cripple this operation, as you are trying to cripple us. And please, stop with the deceitful, manipulative and dishonest emails with your distorted graphs and statistics. We are far too aware of the truth to be conned by that pathetic attempt at deceit.

Wow. Right on. I wonder if Anna and her accomplices realise that fully half the pilots (and probably more) are planning on leaving asap. Most FO's and SO's close to upgrade are looking for better options. They are DONE working for a group of manipulative liars. They and their families deserve better.

A pathetic attempt this evening to co-opt the trainers. Most of us will be resigning if there is any change to our housing. Immediately. And we demand the 13th month as well, as WE did not cause the losses in this airline. Anna, Rupert and all the Swires are not fit for purpose. We are in a state of 'war'. Don't plan on booking CX over the holidays.

I hope you don't mind an editing suggestion, Trafalger. You should put quotes around the passages from the Friday Liar and start a new paragraph (new line) with your response in bold. This way it is easier for readers to separate their lies from your truth.

noted.....

Been telling my mates that. BA and the Beardy geezer it you want to have a hassle free festive season.

WELL SAID TRAF. 100% SPOT ON.

Thank you Traf for summing up exactly how WE ALL feel and view the current environment. Management swine reading here, yes I know you do, have been put on notice! Passengers and shareholders ought to take note as well. It only gets worse from here.

True, the next letter to management may well have some of the longer words underlined! Probably a bit too provocative though.

I noted in her letter she kept referring to group airline(s) losses yet only the CX pilots are the target of vicious cuts !

KA doesn’t exist, it’s been the case for more than 10 years, nothing much happens at KA, big decisions taken by CX management for CX airline. No need for a change !

My point exactly. KA drivers keep their salaries and housing packages intact whilst CX drivers take the hit. Is that fair I ask.

Last nights impromptu C&T get together saw the C&T group separate from us line guys and try to negotiate a deal with AT.

No surprise there, unfortunately.

edit: walked right into her trap. She will be a happy bunny!

Does anyone know the details? I am no longer a 'member' of the club. Curious as to what if any details discussed.

3 separate letters to the trainers from 3 FOPs managers.
Do you think, possibly, that they’re desperately trying to stave off a mass resignation?
This is their Achilles heel.
They’re too thick to even attempt the other devious schemes they’ve been accused of engineering.

Don't be so flaccid.

Spoke to a colleague who was there the first of two nights. No such conversation took place. Apparently it was made clear that the trainers would NOT support a 'special deal', and that their continued role as trainers is in question. If you have evidence to the contrary, then show evidence to support. Otherwise you are just throwing a hand grenade. :mad:

It won't stay like that. Once the CX package has been whittled away, then that becomes the "benchmark", and they'll start attacking KA

Trafalgar, I am a huge fan BUT the C&T ARE negotiating a 3 year lock-in deal whereby their package remains untouched and the training machine remains intact. FOP managers have already agreed such a deal leaving us line guys hung out to dry. In total about 400 C&T guys vs 2800 line crews. It is a safe option for AT to take.
Also Fridays and Saturdays impromptu meeting at Dacho was company sanctioned and paid for by a company credit card.

wrt KA, the new conditions at CX will be “offered” to them in due time when they are “invited” into a common seniority list

Elsewhere the C&T community have accepted that the GC is ineffective ( true ) so have decided to cut a separate deal. AT is listening.

If there is any truth to the deal being set up by the trainers, doesn't that really show them for who they are? We sit back and do the right thing through the training ban; just when training numbers are getting critical, they realize their strength, given to them by us by following the training ban, and cut a deal.

Should we be surprised? We all know the type of individual who jumped into training when they were requested not to!

Uber, Hugo,
As a member of the community in question I can assure you quite vigorously that no special deals are being made; and that any attempt at double dealing would be met with outrage from said community. The informal meetings taking place are in response to initiatives from the C and T community.
Please stop with the conspiracy theories...

Great point Dan Buster.
IF the recent C&T get together was so innocent then share it's contents.
Who initiated it ? Managers or pilots ? Answer FOP Managers. Who paid for it, individuals or management ? Answer management. Were minutes taken ? Answer yes by management as was a list of attendees. Was the AOA consulted ? Absolutely not.
It stinks.

A frank and honest discussion regarding perspectives from the line. Nothing more and nothing less...we live in hope.

Uber..wow...I mean...WOW!

The meeting was held in WTC Building 7, in the offices of the Flat Earth Society. Main point of discussion was the moon landings.

There was no meeting. It was an invitation to have a chat over a few drinks in town. No special deals. Trainers in the same boat as everyone else. Sorry to disappoint all you free thinkers.

There may have been a meeting before the meeting to discuss the meeting after the meeting, but that was about three beers in.

Yes, its fair. All KA flight and cabin crew are on a pay freeze, since April 2016.

KA pilots negotiate KA conditions of service (their contract) . Not a third party, or none affected employees of the DAP. An Annually elected pilot only committee. For DPA pilots. None members ride on the coat tails of the majority.

Each company has plusses and minuses with regards to benefits.. To equate each is unrealistic.

I can't see much in the KA COS that can be attacked with the pilots voting for it .Its already back to the bare bone benifits . Perhaps the leave scheme could be changed, but that's not the above posters whinge.

A whinge or a whine. Fight for your own COS, its each for their own guys.

Uberskyjockey Wrote :

Trafalgar, I am a huge fan BUT the C&T ARE negotiating a 3 year lock-in deal whereby their package remains untouched and the training machine remains intact. FOP managers have already agreed such a deal leaving us line guys hung out to dry. In total about 400 C&T guys vs 2800 line crews. It is a safe option for AT to take.


Uber, that is UTTER, UTTER RUBBISH !!!


Seriously, if this is an example of the intelligence and naivety of some people here, we are well and truly f*cked.

Hi Raven and Giuseppe,
You can probably put uberskyjabberjockey in the ignore column.
For a laugh, have a look at all of his vast posts (over the last 3 weeks or so) and think, what else has happened over the last 3 weeks?
Could this be one one of the upstairs types, who decides to join under a dumb user name, that we would conceivably accept as a junior gel wearing earring adorned brushwinger skygod?
Or can those with clarity see Uber for who he/she is - simply a poorly constructed profile of an "agent provocateur" working for you know who.

Ignore his/her content, and don't feed the troll.

LongTime and Raven,

Sticks and stones ....... but answer the questions

1. Who initiated the meeting
2. Who paid for the drinks
3. Was it sanctioned by the AOA
4. Is there a draft letter from the C&T fraternity to AT

Answer truthfully and I will shut up

This is greatly amusing , what ! The trainers have been meeting with Management on the side ?
Hope no one is surprised in the slightest by this , no one.
Remember ‘the custodians’of cx flying culture have been training up there very own cheaper replacements for years now.....
Now they hardly haven’t been warned have they. Now that they themselves are being targeted they are scuttling about trying to pad their own selfish greedy arses from the fall that’s about to happen......
Watch this space
Trainers will take their own on the side deal.The fact that they even showed up speaks sums up who they truly are.

The trainers will be offered a better package. It will not be increased ARAPA but instead more money in some other form. What they lose in ARAPA will be given back in another way.

Some will see it for what it is and reject the poison chalice and quit training. Those are the true professionals with integrity that won't sell out their colleagues. Others will happily accept the money and go on training their replacements until the next attack on their careers comes, and it will. These are spineless fools who have never in their lives had the balls to stand up to anybody, CX actively recruits this sort.

This scenario plays right into Anna's hands, divide the troops even more. They will throw money at the training ban to make it go away, the champagne corks will be popping when they see pilots climbing over each others backs to get into training.

You all need to see this for what it is and reject it.

Yes there is.

Don't forget that the "C & T Fraternity" includes the HKAOA Chairman. Amazingly.

There is NO SEPARATE TRAINING DEAL. THERE WILL NOT BE.

Is that clear enough for all you losers out there? The trainers are trying to help.
They are not cutting a separate deal.


Now concentrate on the real enemy FFS.

? This is exactly the same argument being made by CX to reduce CX packages - that it isn't fair that ground staff got fired, and CX drivers haven't taken a hit, that ARAPA>>HKAPA etc.

Rather than argue and fight that KA pilots should take cuts "to be fair", maybe better to argue & fight that CX drivers shouldn't take a hit, regardless of the fairness of the situation vs other staff groups.

Well the only reason we aren't being fired is that they need us. Rest assured if they didn't they would.

Quite. Fairness has nothing to do with it.

Do we really need to assume the worst about this meeting and what trainers may or may not do before seeing any real evidence? So far posters claiming to be trainers have all said they are not making some backroom deal. Posters saying otherwise haven't presenting any evidence whatsoever. I'm inclined to believe that until I see otherwise. Please don't prove me wrong, trainers. Call me naive if you want, but we all know we can't trust our employer, if we can't trust our colleagues enough to give them the benefit of the doubt, the future is far more depressing than I'm willing to accept.