CX acmi 747-8F with Atlas
 

Announced today

just so i get the facts straight. Some cathay 747-8s will be operated by atlas including crew? Or cathay crew will be operating atlas aircraft

2 x Atlas 747-8F will operate under ACMI for Cathay Cargo. Atlas aircraft and crews. Press release from Atlas today. Quick google will show it.

there was rumour that more 747s would leave the cathay fleet. is this to cover the fleet reduction

Hmmm, if I was to guess, CX has been forced into this in order to keep to some of their contractual guarantees on reliability and schedule keeping. Mainly because they have so screwed up their own schedule, upset ALL their crew, sickness rates off the charts, etc, etc. This is the only way they can guarantee their performance guarantees to some of their clients, and so hopefully avoid yet ANOTHER lawsuit(s). :D

Got scope? A slippery slope this is. If it doesn't violate your contract? Shame on you.

Scope. Very good point

Especially when many 747 crew are flying well below 84 hrs per month, due to the grossly inefficient roster

Sorry about that....re-reading the title it would be more correct to say Atlas ACMI with CX. I commented on a previous freighter thread that I could not immediately find that Atlas a management sent a communication six or so months ago out of the blue regarding tax liabilities for crew who spend time in HK. I thought it suspicious at the time and I would hazard to guess that's approximately the time that the deal was done.

The easiest way to identify a conspiracy theory is to check for the two common components:

1) confirmation bias : the most pervasive cognitive bias and a powerful driver of belief in conspiracies. We all have a natural inclination to give more weight to evidence that supports what we already believe and ignore evidence that contradicts our beliefs. The real-world events that often become the subject of conspiracy theories tend to be intrinsically complex and unclear. Early reports may contain errors, contradictions and ambiguities, and those wishing to find evidence of a cover-up will focus on such inconsistencies to bolster their claims. If you look at Trafalgars last post you will find a picture perfect example. The motivation behind the Atlas deal is apparently exactly what Trafalgar always assumed it would be. What a coincidence.

2) complexity : ever wondered why conspiracy theories are so ridiculously complex? Because that is often the only way to secure a totally unproven and fictitious story from immediate exposure.

Now, let's look at more plausible options, shall we?

- Leasing requires zero initial capital

- Leasing is totally flexible. No residual cost should there be a need to reduce capacity in the future. New contracts are often time limited, so leasing allows testing the water without risk. Which is , surprise surprise, why so many Cargo Operators are using that option, not only Cathay.

- Atlas really want the contact. Lower cost, extra capacity, need the money, higher productivity, want to get into the market, etc..

- Capacity is needed immediately

- CC is having an effect, but giving in would be more expensive than to lease

PS BC, cargo operation is not as easy to roster as pax ( which operates from A to B and back to A and not from e.g. A to B to C To D and back via E to F to A)

All Cargo airlines have this problem. Ask around. It's complicated.

STW. What office are you in on the third floor. I'd like to visit someday.

Yes, please step into my corner office anytime.

But what would you like to tell me ? You see, I am a bit old fashioned.

I think a debate benefits from exchanging arguments.

Do you have one?

STW
Your argument perpetuates the war between CX and their pilots. This maybe good for you short term. But the scrap yard is full of faded paint jobs of airlines who engage in this tactic. A win win agreement must be reached for all of our benefit.
The CX way of take it or nothing. Has no place in today's modern transportation system.
Someday they will come for you. They always do.

Short memories. KA started with wet-leasing to Atlas. They fly around at CI 0 and taxy at a snail's pace because they charge by block hour. Managers were saying that KA saved so much money when they started flying their own freighters.

It is patently absurd to think that leasing would save money rather than make peace with the TUs and improve rostering and operational efficiency; its just one more way to stubbornly blow cash to say 'I'm right' while digging in.

Think about it. If this made sense why not just lease most everything out and not fly your own airplanes at all ?

Sometimes it makes sense. Buying 2 B748 would be around 400m USD or so, plus the expansion of crew required. If you think the uptick in cargo is temporary, or aren't sure how sustainable it will be, wetleasing a couple more makes sense, even if more expensive.

Shep69 - all the big US airlines do exactly what you say. Anything small (78 seats or so) is wetleased by UA/ AA etc from regional jet/ turboprop companies. Because it is cheaper for DL to just buy x thousand block hours from SkyWest or whoever than fly their own aircraft

Agreed, but the inefficiencies are way beyond that. Many crew barely flying 75% of the "contracted target hours" (any CX employee will know the magic number - no need to post on here), yet at the same time, freighters sitting on tarmacs unproductively waiting for crew to be available.

Ask any jumbo pilot for some of the disaster stories - high value urgent freight (ie, high revenue) being transloaded to other carriers because we can't crew a jet.

Or even worse, high value time critical perishable freight being carried despite the fact that it has undoubtedly spoiled due to the excessive crew shortage induced ground time often without the necessary ground power or aircon required to keep the cargo healthy.

Oh, yes, I forgot, some manager gets a few bucks in bonus because the apu, ground power and ground aircon costs are kept down. Bravo to you, you're a hero. Don't worry about the multi million dollar loss on the freight contract.

Just look at this latest move for what it is: evidence of the epic failure of CX management. Instead of focusing on settling the legitimate issues of concern that their pilot group have, they would rather stubbornly dig their heels in and let the crewing chaos continue. The cost of that is now evidenced by their having to bring in outside companies to ensure the legal integrity of some of their freight contracts.

Our own freighters 'on the ground' so to speak (figuratively, as that is the result of inefficient rostering, so less than optimum monthly hour averages amongst the crews), increasing numbers leaving for new jobs (they don't have to be 'better' jobs, just that they aren't with CX, as most who leave are sick to the teeth with the place and management).

Well done CX management, the wheels are well and truly coming off. Failure writ large. And more to come no doubt.

CX apparently is only getting 11.5hrs utilisation per day.

If they could get that up to 13, that's the equivalent of adding the 2 Atlas aircraft.

Wasn't CX a market leader for aircraft utilisation back in the good old days?

A quick search shows how out of wack CX is.

As Atlas Shrugs, it would be appropriate to say, "Who is John Galt?".

STP