How About a Checking Ban
 

It's not unknown that they are short in all these areas and now, the recently throned GMF (and i'm sure his minions (CPT & MTD&S), are just wringing their hands at this opportunity to cut costs...... DFO will be giddy with satisfaction and all concerned will be sure to collect their CX Get Out of Jail Free cards once this is done.
GMF (and I'm sure MTD&S) are now in talks with CAD to get this done.

Seems that recently, long standing STC's have retired (65+) and were just to bored [sic] with home life, they signed up with the simulator department as instructors. Now, regarding paragraph 1, they are going to "re-qualify" as STC's and do checking in the simulators at a cost of way way way less than the previous "Cheap Check" qualification (TCC). Win, win, win - bonuses will be much fatter...

Can you see the downside, the losers in this move?
The retired STC's, having had a very full and long rewarding career, retiring (usually as A scalers) with the fattest pension payout available. They got theirs yes...
That said, for each one retired STC's that chooses (this is not mandatory) to do this, they are displacing (blocking) 1 for 1, a younger B/C scale TC - from a promotion to STC, with still many more earning years ahead for him/her and their family. Give this some thought - is this what you believe our retired colleagues should be doing ? Will the "bypassed" TC's get bypass pay?

You will know who they are, give them a call and get their thoughts on this matter.
Did you know that some animals eat their children ?

Er, well not at the moment because of the TB being in place and looking as though it'll stay in place for some time to come. Unless of course you're referring to TCCs who aren't members?

STP

Sim instructors are being prepared to do PC's to free up the STC's as we speak
Will that finally be the straw that breaks the trainers backs? I doubt it.

Why don't we just sit on our hands and do nothing but CC/TB as it is obviously working!

It would work out better if our elite trainers and checkers,
Who lets face it, quite a few did a whole lot of chest thumping
Did something for real
But ooo no no
they will just write some more rubbish on forums after they've already written letters that were completely ignored
Pathetic lot they are

Flex, you may be correct in minor parts. Well done for that!
But I think you should appraise yourself of:
When 'A' Scales finished. [Clue: Last millenium] Get over it.
CAD AOC Schedule 9 and schedule 11. [Clue: TCC vs STC] I'm somewhat surprised that you appear to have no concept of your licencing requirements/structure.
Now, I'm basically with you in spirit, so please don't shoot me down when I kindly suggest you do a little research before transmitting excessive chest thumping BS.

Spleener, thanks for being with me in spirit; I was in no way chest thumping and did not intend to come across that way... That said, this IS an ongoing process and I simply want all to know that FOP is requesting ex (retired)-STC's (operating as simulator instructors) to re-qualify and begin "checking" again.
What/how would you all feel about this? What about bypass pay for those "still operating (under 65)" flight crew. What about those waiting patiently in line to be upgraded to STC?
What does everybody think about their retired colleagues who would actually think this is an acceptable practice??

Hmm. Just like the DECs in 2008.

But that didn't slow anyone down did it?

Of course, no one did anything did they, was just the freighter.

Only pressure we have left will be lost shortly. Sim instructors getting checking rights as well as training going to lLine Capts!

Have a look at the contract and requirements!!! Almost as easy as sending our employees over to KA to train or like when QF trained some of our crew!!!

This has always been the case but I guess the hard core No campaign ever expressed that concern. Just like we trained Air HK 747the same thing happens. Sickness is down 40%and now TC ban gets almost solved. Not all of it but some and career progression will slow.

Ok so you agree with a lot of our work going to KA, can't argue that then

No they wouldn't that because guess what everything went into cos but now the company will play their options like the did in the past. This is the negatives from our vote.

Re: re-qualifying Ex-STC's for checking again (eg PC, IR, 528 etc.), this is in the works "NOW" and some ex-STC's have already been approached. CAD has already been querried as to how to go about this!!
Any thoughts on those ex line flying mates that would accept this deal ??

Good luck to them I say. The number of 'mates' that want to do this job (late night sims, away from home and family) won't be more than a few drops in a bucket. CX need a deal with it's aircrew. Sit back, stick with CC and the TB and let things shake out. Don't listen to frantic scaremongers like Samsonite (english your first language?...just asking) who can't understand that the ONLY way to get a proper contract is to demonstrate to the company the resolve and determination to be treated with respect and dignity. The entire CX operation has been reduced to a day to day s#it storm and it can't function without the full cooperation of it's aircrew. That fact won't change no matter WHAT the management do. Stand strong, stand united. Don't lose faith in the righteousness of your cause. We all deserve FAR better than what has been offered. The day has come where we deserve and demand a contract that is worthy of the name. Certainly won't accept anything less than the bases have (see USAOA). CC and TB :ok:

Trafalagar
Blah blah blah blah
" Stand strong stay united blah blah blah blah"
Im sick of your sh#t
You have nothing to offer industrially , just a waist of breath
Why dont you just quit T&C and stop your bleating.
I'm sick of you.

NB
To all trainers having a bleat
Please stop
We are over you . You are worthless and a huge part of the problem
If you dont see it
Sorry.

awww....you hurt my feelings. sob. :{ (and after a vindaloo....i'm sick of my s#it as well !) (oh, and I presume you voted 'yes'.....don't be a sore loser:p) (and as for being sick of me...my guess is you and AT will be able to commiserate over a beer in agreement on that one).

Wow. Now THAT was a wonderfully mature response Goatbreath. Most of the check and trainers are waging their own war against the company. Many have resigned already, and many more are considering doing so. Unless you can give evidence that they are 'all' plonkers, then you have just discredited yourself with a childish rant that is of little or no value. FYI, I don't always agree with Traf, but by and large his comments are well thought out and appropriate. Exactly what is wrong with him exhorting us to stay united and strong? I would think that is exactly what is called for. If I read your comment in isolation, it would have to be considered that you went into AT's office to ask her for approval before posting. It's obvious, through the level of anger that seethes through, that you voted YES. Get over it, and help the rest of us hold the company to account.

I believe A retired STC can only continue to check for 1 year following retirement or loss of license .This is a CAD requirement because after that time they have lost touch with line flying and are no longer able to continue in that role

Oriental, yes yes that was the rule. That said, CX " HAS already approached the CAD and "is" in talks with them as we speak about ironing out the details. EX-STC (sim instructors) have "already" been asked if they are interested !

How bout this for your SCXTC
 

Spot the airline guy

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GSYK2xyA138

Really you think that is correct only one year after retirement? That would be a great CAD rule. That is funny because Capt John Richardson who retired from BA is in his 70's and he is checking everyone including our BTC's. A lot of the Sim instructors still have a valid license and have been approached already.

Even those who have been expired for some time will be "re" validated. Once that is done they can step right in and take a well paying job out of the hands of those who are still actively flying. :=

Mon
Man, it was Dicks record company after all.

Previous AEX course preferred ( so retired IRE/TRE - STC/BTC). Otherwise a very long upgrade process.

My understanding is that they will not need a Class 1 medical, but will need to demonstrate and maintain proficiency through completing their own PC/RT etc.

I doubt they will be paid much extra. in addition an endless succession of PC and M3/M6 duties will undoubtably drive anyone completely insane after about six months. Oh, and guess who will be doing the red eye sim checks....

But there are over 13000 regulatory Sim sessions per year. If some Sim Instructors can cover some of those then the BTC/STC can fly more.

Safety. Phaaaa. It's all about keeping this circus on the road for a few more months.

J.R. is a representing CAD....

Ok, fine. Get on with it. They are not a long term solution. Over 65 trainers doing redeye sims will get sick and die off in short order. Actually, I feel sorry for them more than anything. They can have the job. It sucks. How many V1 cuts and EI patterns / approaches can one tolerate in a life time. I'd rather blow my brains out.

Get on with it? I think it's disgraceful if any of these former STC's volunteer to do checks in the sim. Our former colleagues that have had the best years of CX are now going to weaken our position against the company?

These sad individuals who have nothing better to do in their lives but sit inside a simulator are now actively working against us, it may have little effect but it is still against our interests and they should be treated with the contempt they deserve.

Dead right! Sad, sad individuals. Nothing but contempt for their ilk. They were pr*cks when they were still flying and have confirmed as such with wanting to continue hanging around post retirement.

Should we show that contempt in the briefing or after they've signed our licence? Or should we take a PRA rather than be checked by them? I mean come on, none of us are hypocrites and we certainly have the moral fortitude to say something to someone's face rather than relying on an anonymous forum. :E

STP

This is what is being offered and done because of our actions. You didn't think the company was gonna do nothing and just say ok let's sweeten the offer did you????? Don't complain when upgrades are delayed 2-3 years.

Samsonite. Your evident weakness continues to depress me....:ugh:

Traf smarten up we are weak we had a vote that marginally failed which means we are divided half and half. Would you like me to speak slooooooower?

And never forget that a few of the "returnees" were members of the star chamber......

Samsonite,

The fear of the company's 'Plan B Bogeyman' by the more stupid amongst us was one of the factors which led me to vote NO.

It's absurd to suggest that a YES vote would somehow make the company play nice. They were always intending to supplement their anaemic training capacity with recycled STCs, sub-out part of the JF/O training to KA etc, regardless of which way the vote went. By all means exercise your democratic right to vote YES or NO as you see fit, but FFS, do it on the merits of the TA, not on what the company may or may not do.

And tell me - how has voting NO added 2-3 years to anyone's upgrade time? I don't see the huge (by Cathay standards .. ) delivery backlog between now and 2020 being delayed by a corresponding 2-3 years, therefore the upgrades have to happen.

Veruka and some others are spot on! The company recognized their weakness for current and future negotiations and decided to rectify it regardless of the outcome of the TA. However you voted please know that this action was inevitable.

Fact: one of my recently retired colleagues was asked by head of training to come back as a simulator STC, over a MONTH prior to the vote. Have NO doubt, the company had been planning and implementing this well in advance of the vote. They were doing this no matter how we voted. That should hopefully wake a few of you 'YES' voters up as to the nature of the beast. The only thing we have to move the terms of the debate in our direction is the current CC and TB. If we give that up without resolving any of the big issues, then no aspect of your 'career' will be safe from manipulation. Stay united and keep the pressure on. If any of you want to work for a company with any semblance of a proper contract, then we must see this through to the end. Dragon pilots took almost 4 years to effect the outcome they wanted. We've been going 19 months.

I would have thought that our careers were more safe with agreements locked in place now rather than gamble on getting more later? Everyone now seems to agree that the company will do their best to blunt the effects of the CC and TB and they are already well under way to achieve that. So will our negotiating position become stronger or weaker in the years that it will now take to get them back to the table? If our position is not stronger will the offer be better or worse?

CR, This is just business. If you remove the emotion and rhetoric then we must assess whether we will be better off or worse off from this decision? Will our industrial strength increase or decrease with time (as it has done each other time we have taken industrial action). Given two years with no pay rises and the HKPA not backdated, then who will really win? I thought RP's in the COS was the holy grail (regardless if it is not perfect)?

I keep reading all the apologists trying to reason that we 'will be worse' off , or our 'strength will erode'...etc, etc. The simple fact is that the majority of your colleagues decided that, even 'knowing the risks', they were not willing to accept a deeply flawed TA. History may prove we are worse off, but we were GUARANTEED a step backwards if we voted 'yes'. At least this way, we maintain our dignity, our industrial options and not least of all, the moral high ground. I would prefer to see the 'Beast' for it's true character, and by rejecting their high handed attempts at intimidation and blackmail, at least we can now start to see if they have any 'goodwill' of any sort, or that it was only empty words. Worst case, we all know that there really isn't a proper career here at CX, and we can all plan accordingly. Maintain our unity, maintain CC and the TB and see if there is any true leadership on the 9th floor. The ball is back in their court. Maybe this time they will play it straight.