May 31st
 

4 A330s to Dragon
Freighters to AHK
Freighter pilots to pax fleet (unable to hold pax command - demoted to pax F/O)

Also - end to Expat Housing by 2020 - to be unified with LEP/HKPA


This is what AT is pushing for...

Presume they'll have command restored in seniority order.

She's 'avin a larf mate!

Or is the end to housing the big ticket ask, so we 'think' we've had a win when we keep it?

MM

Sadly
 

The AOA would probably sign off on such a thing as they did with Cos 08, DECs etc...
Still waiting for SHP and Bypass pay issues. Rod came out swinging but has gone rather quiet we'll say. What about the survey we took???

We should have watched the Air Hong Kong thing more closely.

In all seriousness though, that would be rather hard to do I would think as it would require even more training.

DE FOs and DECs on bases is more likely. Guess those guys and gals holding out for the New York super base will have to wait.

If that's what they do, then so be it. At least we know where we stand. No one said I was entitled to this job for life. I will just move on to the next gig.

Plan A
 

So the questions are...

Based on this info:

1. How much crew shortage do they relieve? (What are the ratios? 10 crew per aircraft?)

2. What choice do freighter captains have? And do other pilots in the company have the same choice?

So now we're going to fold over scare mongering and rumors, say it ain't so!

They're the ones releasing the rumors and stories to the paper.

CC forever I say.

Once you get into CC there isn't really any going back unless there is a fundamental change in the attitude of our Senior Management. Goodwill is a two way street and it has to come from them first with some bloody respect and appreciation of the pilot workforce.

NOTHING happens on May 31st, June 1st... Freighters to AHK & A330s to KA don't fly without pilots those airlines don't have. Put expats on local terms... Ha, think you have a pilot shortage now? Just wait until that day comes. Mass exodus!

This airline needs us "greedy gweillos" that know a thing or two about moving airliners across the globe. That won't change anytime soon. Those training our cheaper and far less experienced version of ourselves are not helping matters though. How these C&Ters are willing to put their names on a sign off of these "spiky-haired know nothings" is beyond me. I have flown with many who are nothing short of appalling. They have no business sitting at the pointy end of any airliner, much less a widebody.

The CX brand is being massively cheapened, and not just behind the cockpit door. Passengers today on many CX flights are far less safe than they were just 5-10 years ago. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. It is just a matter of time before a hull loss occurs.

But hang on cxorcist, our enlightened passengers want cheap tickets above all else don't they?

And cheap fecktards that have no business at the pointy end keep those ticket prices down, and if there's any savings left over we should pass the dosh on to our esteemed leaders in the from of bonuses for their enlightened cost cutting.

Safety first my ar$e!

Only a matter of time now before a CX jet ends up at the bottom of a great big smoking hole.

I'll be one of the many screaming "I told you so" to the management w@nkers.

:ugh:

Totally agree CXORCIST!! We need to start writing this stuff up because I feel the same. I am flying with RQ F/o's that can't even communicate with ATC!! Or how about their hands on flying? How are the trainers signing these guys off?? I don't get it!

Why don't you guys leave if not happy? imho

The only sensible comment of this thread

Samsonite,

What, you've flown with guys that may have had trouble with a few radio calls to some of the places we fly to?!! That's outrageous, call the CAD! With crystal clear English in places like Incheon it boggles the mind these new guys.

Silberfuchs,

We all had to start somewhere. Problem now is the guys learning are doing it smack bang in the middle of a culture where people are purposely not doing a single thing extra than they absolutely have to. Guys joining are looked down upon for being keen, you've got to be trying to make it hard for the company, with the ultimate goal of having the flight cancelled (it seems), otherwise you're flamed for being a company man.

... never had a problem communicating in Korean airspace, even when I was a FNG.

CC and what you do once you are signed on are totally unrelated. You just proved what an absolute waste of space you are, X wind.

Cxorcist,

You're either from Korea or you're full of s### then because I haven't met anyone in CX who doesn't think they can be difficult to understand.

ffs. Have a day off!

You too?

Yup this nob is doing my head in as well...

XWL = Troll

Have you seen anything of a technical nature in his arguments ?
Are you supposed professionals really so gullible?
He isn't a pilot.

Don't worry about X-Wind. With a handle like that he is still trying to figure out how to do one when it is over 5 kts across. XWind your typical excuses for incompetence is a big part of the problem. Man up and try and make the standard instead of making excuses.

HKPA
 

Which members will vote on the HKPA? Presumably an agreement on the HKPA will be in play soon, before RP are negotiated. With the vote to accept, or not, include all members of the AOA or restricted to that half of the membership who are directly affected?

This question has been asked a couple of times, and I believe the answer is all members..

Ask yourself this.

Who do you think the company would like to be voting on the HKPA offer?

How about we don't do that.

its getting close to May 31st. Anyone know what the "big changes" will be?? has anyone heard anything?

No I have not. Nor have most people.
And, like many others, neither do I care!

We all know it's their train set.
Luckily for us however, it is actually up to us if we choose to play with it, after they decided whether to change the layout. If it's a significant change, a lot of crew will just go "meh....too hard!"

If it's only minor problems, then we do what we do best, we solve them.
Come on guys, every day at work, you get fast balls, curved balls outside the box problems to sort out, it's what we do, and, luckily for the company at the moment, we do it well. Whatever is presented after 31 May is really no different. Collectively, or as individuals we'll solve it one way or another.

Like much of the other bull**** that trickles down from the top, the art is learning not to step in it, and like so many other things that have the potential to tick you off, you only have to remember, there is no point getting bent out of shape regarding an issue over which you have no control.

I don't worry about this or their other shenanigans , I sleep soundly at night, the sun will still come up, and I still have cold beer in the fridge.

If I don't like what they do with their train set, I like many others may just go and play elsewhere. Life is too short to put up with big egos, stupid people and bad red wine.

Can we all agree to stop saying "It's their trainset", it's a very tiring metaphor.

Yeah ok,

Well after all it is their sandbox, we can only take a sh!t in it :)

Noted with Thanks

Yeah... Korea. World-reknown for their nimble touch on the stick and stellar communication skills. That's your argument to slam our guys trying to build their skill set?

Let me root around my grab bag of aviation incidents and miscellanea, see how far back we have to go to dig up a shining example of Korea's well-oiled aviation machine.... oh my, what have we here.... 5 May of the year of our Lord 2-0-1-6... all of.... 18 days ago! LMAO....

Incident: Korean A332 at Seoul on May 5th 2016, runway incursion forces SQ-16 to reject takeoff

Blah blah blah, SQ cleared for take-off, something something... runway incursion due to KE a/c ignoring or "misunderstanding" instructions and... what have we here... preliminary findings.... ATC first transmission "not clear," second transmission "non-standard phraseology..." blah blah blah. You're right. No problems in Incheon. Evuhr. As for KE, their management are still shining the plaque for their award for 46th place out of 60 companies ranked for aviation safety. Korea... Hwaiting!!!

WTF???? Did I miss a FCTM amendment?

Warmed the brakes up nicely I'd imagine. :eek:

Wow! So brilliant at RTO's that, when you get a real one at very high speed, you invent a new way to do it, all by yourself, in that split second.
You must be very clever, or INSANE!!!!:=

Is that a biological clock ?

If only they taxied a little faster perhaps they could have got airborne and landed with 12 flat tyres.

:ugh:

An Agreement Has Been Reached....
 

Sucked you in yes ??

I presume that any agreements (tentative or otherwise) will be promulgated to all relevant AOA members for perusal PRIOR TO any action/voting; in particular anything to do with rostering. Am I not correct?

If so, insist it be distributed in PDF format !!!

That way, perhaps even prior to reading the document, one can open in Adobe Reader and do a word/phrase search..
Do a word/phrase search for: should, should normally, normally, published, exceptional, exceptional circumstances, can, subject, subject to, disruptions .... you get the drift ..... The more hits you get, the bigger the pile of BS.. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Boeing would have no technical objection to deviate from manufacturers procedures, they get to sell the replacement airframe.

Works well at Lion Air, Boeing shareholders profit.

Its for pulling crap like this why I would never fly on a Kolean airline.

Their English is atrocious - we have all heard them around the region. Closely followed by the Mainland pilots who can't even say their own call sign if it goes into 4-Digits.

And at the bottom of the steaming pile of bad spoken English are the Australians. Who ironically are the ones going for the $20K per month China contracts.

Something about holes lining up.....

Oh boy here we go again...........