KA 330 Penang
 

Stuck there for last 3 days?

Hard Landing
 

Heard it from a fellow KA pilot. 3-pt landing registered nearly 3G's (prob not that high). Saw photos of rivets popped on engine/wing pylon. Got photos from a colleague who parked next to it and had a closer look. Apparently skipper sent back immediately to HK to explain. All this is hearsay but I'm sure the facts can be corroborated in due time.

Aloha.

Favourite sky God question-is the skipper expat or local?

Believe it was a three point landing that was closer to 2G. Either way its not flying anytime soon.

Sometimes it sucks to be PIC
 

Dunno about that but heard the F/O was PF.

Aloha.

Landing gear change I heard.

I don't know how much experience, or what the background of the FO was, but I can hazard a guess... :E

Only a matter of time before this sort of thing starts happening across the road. :ugh:

The true cost of an Mpl becomes apparant?

Here's the AVHerald report:

Accident: Dragon A333 at Penang on Sep 16th 2015, hard landing

B-HLK, 23 years old, is one of the oldest A330s around. In fact, it was the second A330 prototype.
Not worth the repairs. Chances are it will end up as a Kwey Teow restaurant near the airport now.

RIP, Lima Kilo...

Heard that a 777-200 is grounded in Narita with perhaps terminal fatigue damage. Apparently a two-foot crack in a wing? Anyone with any facts? What led to the damage?

A330 was 2.8G I'm told.

MPL on A330?
Don't think so.

Over the land of the morning calm, I had an expat f/o with thousands of hours. Same thing with him as PF high sink rate below 100feet RA; he disregarded my order to go around. I took over, ToGAed, firewalled the thrust levers and climbed away. We did touched down with a slight thud before climbing away. Long debrief but No.1 claimed that he was too focussed on aiming for the spot.

I guessed this lady f/o had less experience, so it can happen to an f/o with more than the required command hours. Skippers can no longer afford be macho and take their eyes off the ball during f/o's landing anymore.:\

We have never been able to relax whilst letting any FO land an Airbus.......

On the mighty 777 I could assist as required at anytime, not on the plastic fantastic...:eek:

That and throttles that don't move......

Absolute genius Airbus, really...:D

ACMS...that is exactly what the Asiana pilots were thinking in San Fran :ok:

Yes and Southwest and LGA too. I bet those were glad of the mechanically linked yokes. But, I seem to recall the nose wheel ended up in the avionics bay, no?

So does that make a first for KA- an MPL induced hull loss? Creative accounting may even show it as a profitable exercise.

In that case both Pilots were out to lunch and nothing was going to fix that......

The hardest landing I've ever witnessed occurred when I was in the right seat with a fairly senior Captain flying (or not flying for that last 100ft). Just saying...

Mine was with the chief pilot on type. Couldn't see the instruments momentarily. Second worst unstable approach after a screwed up instrument approach was with a different chief pilot on a different type. The former chief pilot on that type had the worst.

Anyways....back to subject.

Guessing your still in the right seat?

Is that a bad thing? The inference is that, because you could "assist as required at any time", you were more relaxed on the "mighty 777". The ability to physically intervene during an approach and landing should not be the deciding factor in one's alertness level during approach and landing. I would argue that if you were more relaxed on the "mighty 777" given the argument above then the chances of you having a landing incident were higher than on the "plastic fantastic".

STP

STP is bang on.

It's the same reason I don't like travelling in cars fitted with airbags or ABS... I find that the operator is more likely to drive recklessly and therefore increase your chances of having a prang :}

Keep drinking the airbus Kool Aid, it's yummy!

Whatever floats your boat, in 12+ years left seat I've so far never had to seriously intervene during the FO landing but I'm still keeping a pretty close eye on what he/she is doing as best I can and ready to takeover as needed.

It's just that on the 777 or indeed any conventional yoke back driven type I have the ability to assist with inputs as required as they happen without fear of dual input or canceling his input and making it 10 x worse.... You don't have that direct quick instinctive ability on the bus and are basically at the mercy of the other Pilot below 100'.

Anyway I can't say that I've heard of too many events on a Boeing requiring Landing Gear changes.......on the bus.....:ugh:

No aircraft is perfect. The 737 has a poor history when it comes to the integrity of the landing gear and many have collapsed causing, or leading to structural damage of the aircraft. Then you have the wrinkly 767s that have gone through heavy landings. Maybe you don't hear about them changing gears as it's the actual aircraft they end up changing. Also, loss of control incidents over the last decade were significantly higher for Boeing vs Airbus. Point being in mater what you fly, keeping alter and vigilant at ALL stages of the flight is vital.

I remember an F/O flaring too low and then snatching back on the side stick. In a light aircraft you will probably get away with it but when the main wheels are half way down the cabin it actually drives them on even harder, as I explained to him afterwards.

That time I did take over as survival instincts, honed from having done ab initio instruction in a previous life kicked in.

According to Avhearld, the aircraft had a hard landing on its second touch down after the initial bounce. I would say, its hard enough to intervene in such a short time, and its even harder for the captain to see what the FO is doing with his side stick.

Mods,

There is absolutely no legitimate reason why anybody should post the sex, race, colour or religion of the person involved in this incident.

MPL rumour is enough. Highlighting anything else is irrelevant and illegal.

Thank you.

I wouldn't read too much into the AvHerald post. Even the editor of the site has had numerous incidents whereby they have had to challenge those posting on the site. I wouldn't be surprised if this was rubbish. Why would the captain open the FD door if they were crying?!?!

Perhaps we don't employ the right pilots.
Carry on with the gay bar style narrative whilst I sip a good red

A little sensitive and perhaps defensive aren't we anotherbus ? While all you mentioned may be irrelevant , it certainly is not illegal to mention the gender , race , religion nor colour . For some MPL may also be irrelevant when all is said and done .

As for the article HM , one comment seems to suggest that the Captain was observed from the terminal, not from the FD , along with an observation of the tyres and was qualified with " I thought " .

Anotherbusdriver,

Many here will disagree with you on your statement. It has EVERYTHING to do with the incident. If you don't know why, I suggest you grab yourself a coffee, a pack of 100wg biscuits and read The Fragrant Harbour and archives for the last 5 years. Admittedly, also have a pinch of salt with you at the same time.

Let me illustrate to you what the public have a right to know as a paying passenger:

Case point - I'm on the jump seat of a 777ER. The Captain is a local guy, recently made a Captain. The FO passed his QL few weeks previous. (non HK but came via the ab-initio route).

What are the Recent Experience levels? Captain would have done 12-18 sectors per year as an FO in his last 5-8 years before the handful of sectors during the Command upgrade. FO during his 8 months of line flying between the JFO upgrade and the QL was lucky enough to get a sector every 2 months.

Total Experience level on the Flight deck in the last 5 years between the two pilots? 100 odd sectors. Just what you need going into MNL on the VOR, 130/20G35!

Presumably you survived the approach in question? Despite the apparent lack of experience on the flight deck in question, how did they do?

STP

They did absolutely fine my friend. Textbook. 5s for the Cn 4s for the FO. Both even had their hat.

But you know as well as I do what the point of the thread is. Any more silly questions?

@Betpump

You're a true inspiration to us all Betpump. Really. Your selfless heroism and dedication to the welfare of the flying public and the boundless courage with which you heroically hurl yourself into the raging fires on this anonymous internet forum, throwing yourself on hand grenades left and right. I'm all choked up.

You sir, have The Right Stuff. All that selfless sacrifice purely for the betterment of aviation safety. Heroic. Usually when I read an incident or accident report my gut instinct is to wonder "there but for the grace of god," but then again I lack the tens of thousands of hours hurtling X-1s to the edge of the stratosphere or chasing nasty Huns over the skies of Europe. I salute you sir. You're an inspiration to aviators everywhere.

But you know as well as I do what the point of the thread is.

Yes we do. Yes we do. *wink wink*

:D:D:D

The deadliest aviation disaster in history lands squarely on the shoulders of KLMs chief training officer who was reportedly one of the most experienced and "respected" pilots at KLM at the time.

Any more silly questions?

The sex of the first officer, who allegedly is the person being pointed at, has nothing to do with it. Neither has race or religion.

If you start pointing fingers at people who are in a tiny minority (less than 2% I would guess), you are doing it to either abuse the data privacy laws; or trying to make a point that certain demographics are of a lesser calibre based purely on their sex, colour, race or religion - this is in fact illegal. It highlights your personal bias, and discrimination you feel towards that demographic. Especially when it has absolutely nothing to do with what happened.

And to be perfectly clear, I am calling you a sexist.

I am not disputing your arguments about experience levels, sectors available, or your argument regarding prior training/ experience before KA. My comment is about the fact that there is no need, except to be malicious, that you have highlighted and continue to point out the sex of this particular pilot, when there is no operational difference between a male or a female of similar backgrounds in any case.

Touche. I agree entirely.

I thought the thread was about the 330 hard landing but it seems to have morphed into slagging off MPL and low experience pilots. However, as you yourself have confirmed in the statement above, in adverse conditions pilots who you deemed to have low or limited experience did a good job - textbook in fact.

One silly question if I may; why did you raise the point in the first place if the approach and landing you witnessed was a non-event?

STP

It is not an allegation if the statement that the PF was a female , if true . Not sure if anyone suggested that this was contributory . If she was PF , then fact . Never illegal ! If one alludes to this fact as a cause then maybe you have an argument .
Perhaps you consider it to be a cause ??
Along the same vein , any assumption prior to the results of the investigation are rumour , including MPL , but this is okay with you . Guess you get to pick and choose what is bigoted !!

A female was a member of the crew .Fact . So was a man .Fact . Maybe asexual aliens were flying !!
Nothing illegal or sexist here , get a life and put your political correctness in the bin .

anotherbusdriver

It seems the TV news stations haven't received your memo on political correctness! They do a great job verbally describing someone's appearance, sex, religion and mental state. Additionally if the verbal or written word hasn't helped your prejudice they will provide supportive video or failing that get a sketch artist involved.