Mr Angry - have another try, I'll make it easier !
 

Is the flight crewed by three "pilots" on three different time zones hence three different "day times" ?

that work for you ...:ugh::ugh:

@Trafalgar

Any chance you might answer the questions I posed in my post #26? I think you might be doing many people a great service if you were to at least answer the first question.

STP

Why complicate the matter, I assumed the main base was HKG so based Pilots acclimatised to HKG local.
Next argument....
:\

Here at VS the 48hour layover is more as a result of our scheduling agreement than it is because of CAA ftl's

We also get 3 clear days free of duty afterwards back at base

If there is anything I like less than 3 man long haul...it's placing the RPs into the Ops A, as amendable Company policy....

Hmmm, and the cabin crew flooded the street outside Cathay City when the lunch allowance in Melbourne was reduced....

Let's recap, shall we:
Free O days, free A days, free reserve, no 5/4/3 protection, indefinite (and free) hold at a hotel prior to engaging in long haul ops, two second officers on a 4 man crew, FTLs being used as rostering performance targets, the assumption that discretion will always be utilized...I'm sure I've left something out....oh, our lunch allowance in Melbourne was reduced.

What are they saving with 3-man compared to 4-man?
Not even hotel nights, as we will need 48h in the hotel instead of 24h.

They're only saving on an SO. (The lowest paid man)

If it's a problem of crew numbers, how come they aren't able to recruit SOs fast enough?
Because they decided not to pay expat conditions anymore a few years ago. It takes a year to train a new cadet SO through Adelaide. And it takes 80 sectors to upgrade them to FO.
We shouldn't bear the weight of their incompetence.

Solution: restore a proper housing package, and recruit DESO again.
2 months training now, 40 sectors (instead of 100) when they upgrade to JFO and a much safer airline in the long term (priceless).

3 man..min rest..16-24 hrs..live the dream people

The Rest Period following a Scheduled LRO FDP greater than 13 hours where 3 pilots are boarded will include 2 consecutive Sleep Opportunities in accordance with 7.1.21.3.A.b or 7.1.21.3.B.b and will not be less than 34 hours.


From the AFTL

Great freaking joy..dream on

Personally, I welcome minimum rest. I'm rostered to be home 9 days (and nights) this month, largely due to extended "rest" elsewhere. Since our sh!tty COS doesn't give us any credit/rigs for TAFB, there's no penalty to the company for inefficiency (as any freighter pilot will certainly acknowledge). Thankfully I'm not a commuter.

Except that, from HKG, FRA is always under 13 hours and LHR often is.
And that doesn't help the based guys as their outbound leg is always less than 13 hours.

The target is the based pilots. They're the ones that will be able to do minimum rest in HKG all the time, even if the inbound leg is 13+. That's why only LHR and FRA are targeted for 3 man screw, and not MXP, FCO, ZRH, MAN, CDG or AMS...

So you're happy to do the same patterns on even less rest than what you already had before and for the same money?

Please go see AT immediately to collect your medal.

It's not sector time, it's duty time. But I agree, they will most probably use based guys only because the 2 nights after their longer return flight will be included in their normal rest period.

Because of their far superior rostering practices.. :{

As 4enginesforLongHaul said:

In other words the BALPA reps agreed it with the company.

Thin Edge Wedge
 

You're kidding yourself or haven't been here long enough if you don't realise this is China now with even more devoted civil servants in the CAD.

The future will be CN / FO / SO with minimum rest down route.

It will be whittled away with "not normally" "roster disruption" new patterns, new destinations will start with it diluting current patterns and any other permutations required until it's the new norm. It's only illegal until you rewrite the words to make it legal.

For now, it is only FRA and LHR. With Copenhagen, Dusseldorf and Barcelona all strongly rumoured to be early A-350 destinations, do you think they will be 4-man, or will follow the 'newly acceptable' 3-man crewing precedent....

Yup. Whatever they can get away with in 3 man on limited routes will quickly be used as precedent to apply it everywhere else. Without regard to crew composition, body clock, real rest, anything. Just like everything else that has been done in the past to the rosters.

The proverbial camel's toes under the tent approach.

Your concerns are misplaced - or whatever else was said.

It truly makes me king of cynics corner to say this but the only path to change is via the average adjuster, a smoking hole and 350 body bags.:sad:

It will never happen to us. We are "The CPG" and will always be the best in the transportation business in the air and on the water.

We always land in Typhoon conditions when other airlines have stopped operation, we land in heavy rain when most airlines go-around and/or divert. We have the best conditions of service in the world attracting the most highly experienced pilots in the world.

It cannot happen to us, we are just too good.

And when it does, the whole blame will be on the Captain and Crew.

We in “The CPG” Management team operate with impunity.

To Our Management Bonus,
The Management.