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-   -   Flying with One or Two hands (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/540759-flying-one-two-hands.html)

positionalpor 30th May 2014 15:45

Flying with One or Two hands
....serious report from the skipper. If you bored whilst flying there are more productive activities you can do.
What will be the next write up? Please don't look more than 5 minutes to the right please? I may think you are incapacitated.

Blutack 30th May 2014 15:57

flying with 2 hands
I read this in the latest fleet news. Surely this is a joke right? What kind of small minded, under confident little captain writes into the fleet office about were the FO's hands are.
It's weird.

Oval3Holer 30th May 2014 19:25

I always fly with one hand and play with my [email protected]@ls with the other...

cxorcist 30th May 2014 20:24

Oh FFS! Only on the FH thread and in CX. One hand is good enough for landing but insufficient for TO. That said, I fly with two for takeoff because it's "the Cathay way."

Do other airlines suffer this same level of triviality?

Progress Wanchai 30th May 2014 20:49

They recruit pilots.

positionalpor 30th May 2014 21:32

Moreover, I am expecting a formal thank you note, personally handwritten from the FO next time I give away a sector.
You are right PW. Cx doesn't t recruit future commanders, but perm FO.

Strange that our esteemed CP approved it.

monster330 30th May 2014 22:51

Two hands on takeoff for the airbus too?

I'll have to try that.

Frogman1484 31st May 2014 01:06

You see the airbus is better as we use one hand for everything:ok::O

nitpicker330 31st May 2014 01:42

It's been standard SOP at all Airlines I've worked for the PF to use two hands during rotate and then one for Landing on Aircraft that still use Yokes.

Indeed that's the way Boeing teach it as well.( checkout the Video on Air Force One, the AC uses two hands on Rotate as well )

What's new??

What sort of Captain writes about where the FO's hands are??? Well not me but I can fully understand his frustration after seeing FO's doing some weird things during takeoff and landing...

1/ FO not looking at Engine instruments at all as PM on takeoff
2/ FO letting go of all controls apon touchdown
3/ FO not applying forward pressure on the yoke during commence of roll
4/ FO not applying suitable control inputs during xwind takeoffs and landings......

This is in no way intended to complain about FO's, most I fly with are top notch, indeed a few Tailstrikes have occurred whilst the CN was PF.

It's not the FO's fault either.....training department

Cavallier 31st May 2014 02:37

I love the way that the Captain assumed it must be an attitude problem either personally or with work that prompted this heinous crime!!!

The Cav:ok:

Miles Long 31st May 2014 04:56

;)not relevant

positionalpor 31st May 2014 09:15

I agree with the FO handling the A/C with two hands for the most part ( next time I will ask the FO to engage the AP for me since I am unable to fly with 1 hand).
The "single" hand action won' t lead me into believe that the FO is not interested in the job ( flew with plenty CN in the past who we're not interested in the escape routes charts or ANY briefings over high terrain at all for example).
However I will NOT go out of my way to report such petty event to the CP. It will show how under confident I am.

Ex Douglas Driver 31st May 2014 09:16

FFS, Boeing also designed the aircraft with a TRIM system so that control loads can be negated and a light touch is all that's required, and on their newer aircraft a Fly By Wire system that minimises secondary pitch inputs so that control loads are light and the aircraft responsive to small inputs when the aircraft is in normal phases of flight (e.g. in trim!) and can be accurately flown using one hand.

I'd opine that they designed the aircraft yoke so that two hand can be used when needed - but only if and when required for gross (rotation and acceleration) or abnormal control inputs!

Save the two handed white knuckles death grip for your karaoke mike....

BillytheKid 31st May 2014 16:49

I did a crew up with an SO in the sim and saw him flying with one hand. I informed him that we fly boeing big jets with both hands, except when needed for the thrust levers. That was it. I didn't send a letter whining about it to the fleet office.

There are a couple captains at CX that seem to go to the fleet office about EVERY detail they encounter. My how the fleet office must feel like babysitters. One personality conflict does not require a write-up in the newsletter. Certainly there are more important things!

Arfur Dent 1st Jun 2014 07:23

What ever happened to a 'quiet word' - thereby fulfilling one's obligation to pass on pearls of wisdom to junior crew members. Not via the Fleet Office whilst adding some self-awarded 'brownie points', just a gentle, helpful bit of good advice.
Boeing CP should educate some of these 'visitors' to his office - not publish them!

Chuck Ellsworth 2nd Jun 2014 00:12

Back in the days of flying the DC3 I always flew one hand on the wheel and the other hand on the throttles when taking off and landing.

Never ever ran into a situation where the airplane could not be flown that way.

Sir KDM Lowe 2nd Jun 2014 00:30

But we land with only one hand on the yoke. Surely that's a more demanding phase of flight? Another bully boy in the making by the sounds of it.

I reckon they publish these stories just to embarrass the contributors and to show us what they deal with.

monster330 2nd Jun 2014 02:17

So who is this guy?
We bus boys have share of knobs (people type) but don't have the One hand - Two hand conundrum.

Who is this ****? Name, or initials. Old school, new crop or a muddle if the roader who should know better??

CXDOG 2nd Jun 2014 06:41

They are hiding out there sometimes - toss pot Captains who think that you can't be anywhere near as professional an aviator as them because you only have three stripes.

Wasn't so long ago I used to fly for years single pilot multi-IFR with no useable autopilot. Pretty sure I would have crashed had I kept two hands on the control column then. Hard to believe I used to tune radios and navaids, follow charts, change heading bugs, talk on the radio and look out the window etc without another pilot there to keep me safe. I find it a nuisance that I have to ask 'he/she who must be obeyed' to do all those things for me now. Surely it is not beyond any competent airline pilot (in either seat) to turn their own heading bug while hand-flying? Really?

Being able to comfortably fly the aircraft one-handed (even a widebody jet on a long-haul flight) shows you have the aircraft nicely trimmed and under control and probably have some capacity to spare...

I would welcome that on a flightdeck - not criticise it!

Stationair8 2nd Jun 2014 09:24

Do you need white gloves or does military issue ones suffice?

Are the joys of multi-crew.

Night Watch 2nd Jun 2014 11:09

This is the dumbest post ever on this forum..... if you can't fly one handed get the f#@k out of aviation.


superfrozo 2nd Jun 2014 11:24

Captain Ricky Bobby - is that you??

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boocs 2nd Jun 2014 11:56

Hilarious! (though think he could only fly Airbus')


cxorcist 2nd Jun 2014 22:30

As usual Rod, well put! It's amazing how skewed our perspective becomes flying with this outfit.

Shep69 2nd Jun 2014 23:46

WOW....I thought this was a running joke but I guess not. Maybe it's the same folks who get so upset over the wrong person drinking from the Red Cup (thought that was in fun too till I found it wasn't...now the wife and I have a bit of a laugh over it).

Come to think of it the yoke and throttles ARE missing a lot of buttons that do all kinds of things that many FOs used to fly and blow things up with.

Maybe this individual can be publicly shamed like the "12 Dunk" teabag guy.

Chuck Ellsworth 3rd Jun 2014 00:14

This one/two hands on the wheel discussion is interesting.

If having one hand on the wheel and the other on the power levers is considered just to complex for some airline crews thank God they are not flying helicopters.

Synchronize 3rd Jun 2014 04:26

I'm with night watch on this . This is the most ridiculous post ever
But okay I will get drawn in

In the words of Hillary Clinton " At this stage what difference does it make?"

Who cares . if you can fly the aircraft comfortably with 1 hand then do so, after all we land with one hand Perhaps that explains some of my arrivals !!
If you have problems using just one then use 2 but seriously if the PF is doing a good job who cares how many hands he has on the stick as long as it isn't shaking I don't give a rats

Gnadenburg 3rd Jun 2014 04:58

And by the way, those one-handed, supersonic jet solo pilots also flew ...
Maybe the complaining Captain was from this type of background? Pilot weirdos in Hong Kong seem pretty well-represented from all backgrounds.

sodapop 3rd Jun 2014 18:45

In the words of Hillary Clinton " At this stage what difference does it make?"
Are you actually quoting Hillary? Holy sh*t batman.

Elvis has most defintely left the building.


positionalpor 3rd Jun 2014 23:40

I will try this next time.
Maybe I will get a call to the MR. Allan's office too.....

Q: Vhy vere iu fling vit van and?
A that was fine!!

Offchocks 3rd Jun 2014 23:45

Sorry gents I'm bored and lurking, but this thread makes me smile.

BTW our training dept. occasionally debates if your arm rest should be up or down whilst hand flying. Some think it gives you a steadier hand, however I think they should get their hand off it!
Another great topic that comes up is should the PF's heals be elevated or on the floor when on final approach.

Hope that brings a smile to your face!

Chuck Ellsworth 3rd Jun 2014 23:49

I wonder how many hands were on the wheel when that 777 hit the seawall?

SweepTheLeg 4th Jun 2014 02:24

When I taxi I roll open the window, rest my arm on the ledge and have my elbow sticking out. I have my other hand on the control yoke, but actually it's more like resting on top of it.

The only feedback I get is the occasional hi five and sometimes a bit of a head bob as we roll on out.

Tee Emm 4th Jun 2014 07:55

Being able to comfortably fly the aircraft one-handed (even a widebody jet on a long-haul flight) shows you have the aircraft nicely trimmed and under control and probably have some capacity to spare...

I would welcome that on a flightdeck - not criticise it!
On joining my first airline I asked why the insistence on a two handed rotation? I received various reasons including: rotating with one hand makes you inadvertently roll on bank in the direction of which hand is in use. Or; removing your hand from the thrust levers at V1 is a symbolic tradition in airlines the purpose of which is to make you think twice before aborting after V1 by mistake.
Typical of the Old Wives Tales perpetuated in airline training. None of the above were rational reasons, in my view.

Sqwak7700 4th Jun 2014 18:08

I prefer to rotate with my left hand as it makes it feel like a stranger is doing it.:}

stilton 5th Jun 2014 08:23

You certainly should be able to fly with one hand but I disagree on one point.

Removing your hand from the thrust levers at V1 is good, sound, industry wide practice and really is an excellent idea, mentally and physically committing you to keep going at that point and not attempting to reject when doing so only invites disaster !

drfaust 5th Jun 2014 10:46

Sqwak7700: I prefer to rotate with my left hand as it makes it feel like a stranger is doing it. :}
Congratulations, you have just won the internet :). Could also try rotating without any hands by purposefully loading front C.G. and trimming full back around 5 seconds to rotate.

Anyone every try this? :}

AQIS Boigu 5th Jun 2014 10:54

The Airbus is flown with one hand...

Yonosoy Marinero 5th Jun 2014 14:33

You could always put the other one on your own joystick and get off while you get off.

I'm sure the '2 hands on the wheel' driving instructor who moaned to the 3rd floor would approve.

hikoushi 7th Jun 2014 09:54

The only airliner currently flying in revenue service that I believe is still regularly and legitimately taught to be landed with 2 hands on the yoke (in the last bit of the flare ONLY) is the DC-9 / MD-XX / B-717 while landing in very gusty winds. No hydraulics so very hands-on. Sequence like this:

1. Left hand on yoke right on throttle. 30 feet (depending on energy state), retard throttle and initiate flare.
2. Right hand to yoke. Complete flare with 2 hands, using precise movements both calculated and rapid, which as airspeed reduces become mighty heaves, shoves, and 90-degree twists of the yoke to counter gusts and maintain flare attitude. Slight "release" of back-pressure right at touchdown (if it is a "good mojo" landing day only).
3. Right hand grabs spoiler handle and holds it forward, momentarily preventing auto-deployment. Gently allow spoilers to deploy simultaneously with "seating" the weight of the aircraft with your left hand as you begin derotation.
4. Release spoiler handle, pull idle reverse.
5. Nose on the ground, deploy more reverse (as required) and stop.
6. Go home and drink beer. Massage your sore biceps from "Wrestling with the Beast".
7. If you think this is crazy talk, you are probably a career Airbus pilot and have never flown one of these, or have never flown one into really gusty winds. Don't get me wrong, I fly the Bus now and love it. But my biceps are shriveling up from lack of use.

I suppose the IL-62 may be the same.

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