4-3-3%
 

Word is the offer is upped.
Better than KA was presented with.

Seems like a real victory.

Shall we read over the rubbish spouted by the AOA from around the time they vetoed the CC vote?

Besides, are we not heading towards an American-esque hourly pay system? Of course, legacy carriers from around the world have had such high regard for their US counterparts' conditions and contracts, haven't they. I'm sure KLM, Lufthansa and British Airways pilot unions are working on theirs. Why wouldn't we want to embrace such a system?

All other professionals are paid by the hour, aren't they?

Oh, wait...

Below inflation pay rise=pay cut. Again.

Take what you can! The second round has always been worse. The devil will be in the detail. I'm hoping for more hdp plus penalties for messing with your, or someone else's, roster.

Marand I agree with However definitely NOT That is managements dream. So be careful what you hope for and the demand by some for "credit" for this that and the other, will end up biting us. As the company would love to have NO basic salary and everything on HDP. Which is the way some people want us to go is just playing into their hands.

BASIC salary needs to be increased!

Etops,

KLM, LH, and BA are European (obv) companies and, therefore, are tied to national pension schemes, wheras, the US companies, in addition to the hefty hourly duty pay, have a private pension system. Apples and oranges mate. No EU carrier can or would apply a COMPLETE US type system. That said, my old EU company did have duty and trip rigs in place to guarantee minimum hours paid per day or trip.

Without going into the throngs of which is better, or worse, they are simpy--different.

I agree with you that implementing a COMPLETE US system at CX is not the way to go. However, some rules to protect rostered pay and to secure min pay per day, sector or trip would be beneficial.

Cheers,
Soda

I agree with iceman, but vey optimistically cautious!! Would love not to live pay check to pay check!

No way I'd vote YES on this.

Maybe we will get a better priority for staff travel on KA, as compensation?

2015 and on.... inflation
 

Be very careful what you agree to now... most pundits seem to believe that inflation will rear its ugly head from next year, so a 3 year decreasing deal must seem like a dream come true to the management negotiators.

maybe in 2016 when you're paying 14%+ for your mortgage and $50 for a can of beans the mists will clear in your addled (maybe too tired) brains and you'll grow a spine for the next round of 'negotiations'

... by the way how's the contract that penalises the Company for any change to the published roster coming along?

Keep dreamin boys.:}

Boys...
 

You will always be living paycheck, to 3-month paycheck, fighting inflation at every turn.

This company will NEVER do the right thing, let alone keep your CoS inline with inflation.

In real terms, you have passed your highest career earnings. It IS backwards from here.

This is a wretched company in a wretched industry.

AoA to the rescue...yeah right...L day working FO's & Capts showed you what they are prepared to rescue. And it ain't the collective good.

Downhill, and accelerating, regrettably......

Your numbers are wrong. It's known that a minimum of 4.5 % this year will happen, as that is what the rest of the staff received. However, the company knows they are a few years behind giving us raises, so they have increased this to a one time 10% rise. Additionally, each future year, the minimum pay rise is 4.5%, and if the CPI is greater, so will the pay increase. Period if agreement is 6 years. This is still a rubbish deal... 20% would be fair right off the bat, and 30% would begin to make amends for the lower life expectancy due to fatigue and scuzzy air quality.

I'll have whatever you're smoking. You're seriously delusional and should not be operating heavy machinery.

Get your lungs checked quad.... I'm pretty sure then you will demand a minimum of 30% right now. In addition to that, a return of green pages my be necessary, to allow families to escape the harsh pollutants in the air of HK. I'm pretty sure everyone will be going to the doctor to have their respiratory system checked if a prudent pay deal is not put forward by management very soon.

I'm pretty sure the management are breathing the same polluted air. Not sure it's the best argument we have. Besides we get to escape the pollution in outports ;)

Managers are breathing the same air, so naturally, they will understand the need to increase the pay commensurate with inflation and the rate of crap in the air in order to keep enough qualified pilots in the company. They also are taking in more than a 2k HKD bonus.

You guys will never learn.

There's the have and the have nots. ( or something like that, I'm sure you get my drift )

We are not managers pulling the strings and things will never change until they can't fill seats and flights get cancelled.

Supply and demand.

Sad but true.

I am surprised the company no roll out red carpets and make cheesy mug lids for the Most Caring Company award! Why noooo? :}
Aren't we living in a make-believe company culture? They make, you believe!


"If you live a life of make-believe, your life isn't worth anything until you do something that does challenge your reality." Morgan Freeman

Best strategy to fill flights is to cancel th3m due lack of man power.

Why do so many CX pilots believe we are on a salary? We are on an hourly system with an 84 hour guarantee with some odd hour multipliers.

letsfly
 

Erm, because if I don't fly due to sickness, I still get my base salary. If I don't fly due to rostering, I still get my base salary. If I don't fly due to every one of my aircraft going tech one month, I still get my base salary.

If I do fly, I get a tiny amount added on to the base salary. If I fly in to overtime, that rate increases.

Either way, I still get my base salary; which, as it happens, is the VAST majority of my monthly pay. Notwithstanding housing, which is, of course, a separate bag.

I'd have thought that was pretty obvious?

Hourly multipliers are nothing to do with our base salary. Rostering try to get us to work a certain amount to make us efficient recipients of our salary.

Yes, be very careful about what you wish for.

Increases in HDP are a smoke screen.

You can show your bank manager your basic salary, because it comes in whether you do 10 hours or 100 hours. Hourly rates & EFP vary from month to month, so much harder to demonstrate to a bank manager when applying for finance.

I thought the CC motion late last year was about pay rises, not HDP.

broadband
 

Precisely.

Anyone sensible would merely seek a base salary raise, and the HDP adjusted so that once again, doing 84 hours amounts to an additional 10%.

Unfortunately, some of the more hung-ho yee-haws amongst the GC seem to view United's pilot contract as some form of model to aspire to. What a hilarious proposition.

The US major carriers have hundreds of pages of work rules in order to facilitate their contract.

Our contract is tiny, and therefore our pay structure must be equally simple.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all up for rigs which protect us, like minimum duty credits, rostered credit protection, etc. That is entirely a side issue to pay. They don't require a change in pay structure. For us, such rigs will result in better rostering conditions, in terms of disruption and how we're used, but not about the money (but the credit would be there to at least provide some reward if we are being flogged).

For pilots at the American carriers, the rigs mean protecting their pay. If they don't fly, they don't get paid (minimum guarantee aside).

Anyone know how, after their courageous efforts, the Lufthansa pilots got on?:D

5.3 - 4.1 - 4.3.

CPI in HK for 2011 - 2012 - 2013...

If we want a significant raise, we'll need to take significant action.

It really is that simple. If we won't take significant action, we should probably take whatever crap offer is on the table.

Time to see who are men and those who just think they are cause they wear pants....but secretly wear frilly pink undergarments.

Actions speak louder.....you want accept fill your boots.....me I think we are due for a shakeup around here and all those who have joined since the 49's can be introduced into how this company really works....see how many run in fear then.

4-3-3
 

sounds like this is what Chu has bequeathed us during his tenure at the helm....here's to his end of tenure bonus in 3-4 years!:yuk:

The last 'local' CEO was an unmitigated disaster. Why am I not surprised?

Sickness rules changed? (we won't mention the law in the base jurisdictions). Shareholders forking out for doctors' fees, and from my experience the medicos will be VERY generous with time off...

No A Days? Less window of opportunity to notify roster changes. Last minute panic for Crew Control... 'Sorry, cannot get there for 2 1/4 hours'. Then another hour to get the jet ready.

Yeah, knock yourselves out, CX.

By the way, how's that Paris base closure going?

I think Dr. Cox is going to become suddenly far busier than he has been in the past. :ok:

Serously, CX....do you really think this will IMPROVE the situation? I went sick three times last year, each time for approx 2-3 days (and all legit I might add). Now, I will simply agitate with the Dr. for minimum 5-7...perhaps even 10 days. Most times that will be offered without question.

Keep squeezing the vice. Considering the breathtaking lack of 'good faith' just shown these past few months (base closures, A days, sick days, derisory pay offer, staff travel changes, etc), you will soon have a seething cauldron of flt ops personnel. You will reap what you sow, and frankly, most of us really don't care anymore.

"…….and frankly, most of us really don't care anymore."

+1

"…….and frankly, most of us really don't care anymore."

Basically this...

In 2010... The four main unions representing pilots and flight attendants have written to Chief Executive Donald Tsang Yam-kuen to protest at Cathay Pacific being named one of Hong Kong's most caring companies.

Cathay Pacific has hit back at the letter, calling the criticisms unfounded and irresponsible and an unwarranted slight on the efforts of employees and the Hong Kong Council for Social Service, which gave it the award.

Now once again, this year... Cathay Pacific has been awarded the title of Hong Kong’s most attractive employer at the 2014 Randstad Award. :D :D :D

Come on, company is thinking for our best interest mates!

Listen Shenzhen airlines is offering a USD 3000 bonus to anyone who can get a pilot to sign up with them
I need to boost my measly pay somehow so could anyone who is thinking about going to work for them pm me and allow me to forward your application so I can claim my finders fee . Their new salary package really isn't too bad

Oh and Treybor I stopped caring many years ago

Does anyone else think it's very strange that right on the crux of pay and rostering negotiations (in good faith!), the company distracts us with A day cancellation, threat of doctors certificate requirements, and a base closure?

Personally, I think they are trying to pi$$ us of on purpose so we vote down any crappy negotiated pay and rostering deal so they can then implement whatever they want and thus save more money!

As far as the doctors certificate goes, bring it on. My GP has always tried to give me huge amounts of time of for minor ailments (he's not particularly fond of CX!). In the future I'll take him up on the offer. He knows best after all!

40% at most US Airlines...we are happy with 4%...

Great...wonderful..

But hey, we love in Hong Kong..all is good.

Etops240,

That is the way the system works with an hourly guarantee as was mentioned. You get the guaranteed minimum regardless of how much you actually work. If you exceed it you get overtime. It is exactly the same just called something different. Most have a higher guarantee for reserve lines as well. For us the minimum would be 84 hours whether you actually flew 30 hours or right to 84.

The CPI figures are grossly under estimated by the way. They don't take into account the cost of energy and basic food stuffs, the price of an Ipad is used, believe it or not, to calculate the figure. I would say annual inflation is more like 10%.

It's Time To Ditch The Consumer Price Index (CPI) | Zero Hedge