PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Fragrant Harbour (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour-19/)
-   -   No money in freight (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/537006-no-money-freight.html)

Sam Ting Wong 30th Mar 2014 00:59

No money in freight
 
The declining role of freighters in air cargo - Aircargonews


back to 20 a/c...

betpump5 30th Mar 2014 03:36

Beggars belief. Cathay really do employ a bunch of dimwitted muppets at a senior level.

The reason why Gulf carriers are taking our market share in both passenger and freight is because they offer a far superior service than cheapskate Cathay.

Better modern planes that people WANT to fly in, far superior cabin in all classes compared to CX, and a cabin service only our CC can dream about giving.

Freight is one of the reasons why we missed the boat in getting the A380 and now we are lagging behind our competitors.

I almost wet the seat when the SO next to me said he was proud to be flying for a Premium carrier.Premium?

Frogman1484 30th Mar 2014 05:23

Wait until the next 150 A380 arrive in Dubai.

Not only will they take our cargo, they will also take our pax:ugh:they will eat our lunch while we fly to the same ports 5-6 x per day.

Look at the kangaroo route. Dead! You can now fly to any port in oz from just about any major city in Europe with just one stop in Dubai.

I'm sorry to say but Cx is directionless and has its head buried deep in the sand thinking it is still the best.they are more interested in fighting staff than competition!

EK made over 600 min USD profit last year when we mad $30! Yet still we want to push cargo! Let's see how much they make this year. I will bet it is much more than Cx!:mad:

Frogman1484 30th Mar 2014 05:25

I remember speaking to South Africa country manager and him saying that we do not fly to Cape town because of the crew cost of doing the shuttle.

Do you think EK worries about the crew cost? No they fly there because there is a market!:mad::{

Arfur Dent 30th Mar 2014 09:53

Cathay seems to have survived despite their appalling attitude to anything but profit. Their market came to them whether they deserved it or not but this situation has changed with the emergence of players like EK. The dreadful attitude to pilots is a veritable time bomb that will bite sooner rather than later.

What is to become of all the FO's who will stay on their Bases rather than accept a one way ticket to HKG ( where else in the world does that happen) for a Command? As we reduce our freighters what will become of all the Captains who can only fly freighters? What will happen to all the SO's when they try to live with their new wives and developing families on cheapskate housing allowances in a few years time?

And we hesitate to engage in CC - voluntarily or by AOA directive??!! It may be just the thing to concentrate the minds of our truly woeful People Managers. If they don't get a grip there won't be an Airline to foul up!
Did you spend your profit share yet?

Fac6 30th Mar 2014 10:05

Without causing a thread drift or defending CX by any means, but have any of you spoke to the guys n girls in EK and spoke to them about their rosters, FTL's, pay, etc.?

You would be kinda shocked!

Sam Ting Wong 30th Mar 2014 10:14

I do not blame management for the situation.

I think it is all about external factors in the end, fuel price, world economy, competition, geographical location. These things are out of the influence of any Cathay manager.

The success of Emirates is NOT the result of its management, but the (ongoing) gamble of very wealthy owners willing to bet the tent on it.

For these reasons, managers do not deserve the pay package or any merits should they got lucky and post a profit.

Being an Airline manager is mostly about administration and looking good in a suit.

Tankengine 30th Mar 2014 12:09

Arfur, who says freighter Captains cannot handle the rigour of flying with pax down the back.:rolleyes:

Arfur Dent 30th Mar 2014 16:45

Hi Tanker
As you know, I didn't mean that! What I said was that they (you?) "can only fly freighters" ie that is the only aircraft generic type that they can be in Command of as they are not allowed to operate pax aircraft normally. I say 'normally' because I believe Line Checks are allowed on pax aircraft.
Anyway - it was just a question about how CX will deal with these 3 unique groups that are formed as a direct result of CX policy.

joebanana 31st Mar 2014 07:42

It's a fair enough question Arfur, and well done for not taking Tankengine's bait!

Line checks are not permitted on pax aircraft for Freighter Captains.

bigbeerbelly 31st Mar 2014 19:05


Wait until the next 150 A380 arrive in Dubai.
As far as I know, they do not and will not get more cabotage rights to most countries. So the logic of ordering that many planes and no where to fly them is not just bad management, but borders on insanity.

bigbeerbelly 31st Mar 2014 19:31


What is to become of all the FO's who will stay on their Bases rather than accept a one way ticket to HKG ( where else in the world does that happen) for a Command?
Nothing will happen. It is their choice and they can retire as FOs if they choose.


As we reduce our freighters what will become of all the Captains who can only fly freighters?
This is a very good question. It started in Manchester, with Captains flying in the right seat. Now its all of Europe. Next is probably Sydney, then Vancouver. The cause and effect is a surplus of HK based 747 FOs, which now will get conversion courses to the 777. The poor SO waiting on his JFO for 3-4 years will just have to wait.


What will happen to all the SO's when they try to live with their new wives and developing families on cheapskate housing allowances in a few years time?
I have little pity for someone who has less experience, taking a job at lower COS. Then, later crying that its unfair after the shiny new jet feeling wears off. These SOs are a further testament to the me-me-me, world-snowboarding-tour, I fly a jet attitude, that is driving down the industry. Get a College degree, go pay €30,000 for your ratings, then flight instruct a few years, then beg your way into a turbo-prop job, then when you get a few thousand hours in the left seat and actually are the right stuff and don't even realise it, get a jet job for a few more years. If they did all that, supply and demand would solve the Housing Allowance issue. However, they chose the easy way and that has consequences.

BBB

bigbeerbelly 31st Mar 2014 19:43


EK made over 600 min USD profit last year when we mad $30
Perhaps a typo, but we made US$334.9 million profit. Which = HK$2000 profit sharing :confused:

Long Dong Silver 31st Mar 2014 20:36

Remember who the real enemy is...
 
BIGBEERBELLY,

but what's the point of doing all that and wasting money when CX will pay for your training and stick you right into a widebody and give you a free rating? Don't tell me you wouldn't do the same if there was an opportunity like that sitting in front of you at the start of your career.
Remember who the real enemy is...

Frogman1484 31st Mar 2014 22:20

Bigbeerbelly.

The figures were for the last financial year. Let's see how much EK makes this year.

Shag Nasty 31st Mar 2014 22:38

Hey BBB,
Most based Captains are in the AOA so you remarks are not true. As for the comment that the AOA has ignored the members is therefore untrue as well. All members should be represented. Also your comment about first the Manchester then Frankfurt blaa blaa blaa are untrue as the email was sent out to all European Captains regarding RHS. Also no one was given an option regarding RHS endorsing, the company has the right to do that which they exercised, not saying it is right, but that is their right, the Captains had no option but to accept it (the threat of base closure was implied in the email). So I don't understand your rant.....

bigbeerbelly 2nd Apr 2014 02:19

Check :ok:

cxorcist 2nd Apr 2014 22:59

It is interesting when you really think about it, CX is expanding its role as a hub and spoke carrier for cargo while focussing on O&D traffic on the passenger side. I'm not sure how to gauge this.

Is the cargo movement a response to the market or simply a natural byproduct of having over-invested in cargo assets, terminal and freighters? On the passenger side, it seems CX is content to use the Hong Kong hub as a regional connection point serving SE Asia and China to all of its long haul destinations, but not pursuing long haul connections to other long flights so much (ie the Kangaroo route).

Perhaps this is just a product of geography, or perhaps that long haul to long haul traffic simply isn't very high yield due to the competition out of the Middle East. I don't know, but I am mostly content with their current strategy. The exception is that I think CX is very late getting to secondary markets like Seattle, Boston, Manchester, Zurich, etc. CX's conservative tendencies serve it well in a downturn, but result in a lot of missed opportunities the rest of the time.


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:09.


Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.