Things are changing: Accept it
 

Some of you gents who seem to be a little uneasy about China's aviation dominance of the local region should give a little thought to the following.

As one drives from the airport into the NEW Chinese city of Jiuquan (satellite launch pad in the Gobi desert) on the right hand side just before entering the city there is a large sign written in red that says in both Chinese and English "Without Fear; Without Haste; We conquer the World."
Nothing bragging about this eye catching sign, it just stands there for all to ponder. Think about this.

Prince of Dzun

They haven't even conquered their own airspace yet.

Actually they have.

They have a couple of north south airways
We can maybe use.. Maybe with only an hr
Or two delay.

Otherwise they own it and are not budging

I don't suppose you have a picture of the sign.

If you do can you post it to Obama & all western leaders so they can wke up and get their fingers out!

:{

Another slogan of comunist propaganda. Old habits die hard.

Those who believe that are in for a big surprise in not so distant a future.

That slogan didn't work so well for Germany or Japan... :hmm:

Master Caution;

I dont have a photograph of the sign and I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to get one. I dont know anyone who goes to Jiuquan and I dont know anyone who lives there. !! China Eastern and Shanghai Airlines operate to Jiuquan so perhaps, just perhaps a crew member might take a snap of it and put it up here for all on Pprune to see. I'm interested in the wording of the Chinese characters and to see if they really correspond accurately to the English version.
If one could find out when the next big satellite is due to blast off it might be worth the effort to visit Jiuquan but apart from that it's a long way to go just for a photograph.

Prince of Dzun.

Prince:

Good point, the english and chinese often don't match!:\

I guess, in the past, Cathay had a cozy set-up in HKG, and that was reflected in pilots T's&C's. Then along came Dragonair, and although I'm no expert on Dragonairs early payscales I'm willing to bet they were somewhat lower than Cathay's.

Cathay's answer to the Dragonair 'low cost' model was to buy it out (after spending a while cutting the T's&C's of Cathay pilots, with moderate success).

Now there is a new threat on the horizon, in the shape of HKA.
A company with Chinese Mainland backing, and we are in a whole new era in Hong Kong - The Post Brit era.

There's no doubt that T's&C's at HKA are way lower than at Cathay.
Can Cathay management realistically hope to cut their pilots T's&C's to that level? Quite a challenge, given the limited success before, and the ripples of discontent that still propogate from that war.

Can Cathay instead just buyout HKA, like they did to Dragon?
I think not.
We are now in the PB era, and HKA is 100% Mainland owned. No amount of money is going to undermine this political project. Swire will be bled dry first.

Look at it from China's point of view. In the PB era, why do they need a load of Brits owning the 'National Carrier' of Hong Kong?
Even the name - Cathay. It harks back to a quaint time when Britain was the world superpower. What relevance has the name 'Cathay' to the modern Chinese? Nothing, but a loathsome reminder of the time when China was on its knees before the europeans.

And what is that marking on the Cathay aircraft tail? The Swoosh I believe it's called? What is it's relevance to Hong Kong?
I suppose it could be considered faintly Chinese? A representation of a brush stroke, the type of brush used to write traditional Chinese characters.
Duh??

On the other hand, the national flower of Hong Kong is the Bauhinia.
The tail art of the HKA aircraft is representative of the bauhinia.
It is also represented on the national flag of Hong Kong!
HKA's call-sign is 'Bauhinia'.
So you would not be far wrong in saying HKA has positioned itself as the Flag Carrier of Hong Kong.

Hong Kong Airlines MEANS what it says.
It means to be The Airline of Hong Kong.

But who will work for these low T's&C's at HKA? HKG is an expensive place to live!

Well, one only has to look at the demographic in HKA today.
The largest group of expat pilots are the Phillipino's.
Hong Kong is only 1 hours commute from Manila - you could practically live there and commute to work. Perhaps they will in future!
Phillipino's don't mind roughing it in HKG. They rent an apartment and then share it.
The money, while not Cathay spectacular - is very good by Philipine standards. More than enough.
And there is no shortage of Philipine pilots who will grab the chance of a job at an expaanding carrier in Hong Kong. Their own company has effectively given them an ultimatum to sign a new contract or resign.

Yes, the times they are a'changin'.
You ain't seen nothin' yet baby.....

Correct. It is the accident and incident rate that will attract the most attention though. As a race the Chinese are very superstitious, maybe they will prefer to stick with what they have got?

Now there you may have a point.
But have a look up North.
What happens when a bullet train crashes?
They find somebody to blame - give that guy the chop (perhaps literally), make a few superficial announcements about changes, then say 'its all been fixed' and carry on regardless.

Tell me I'm wrong.

HAHAH
LOL, funniest post i have read in ages, esp the phillipino pilots ! and the mainlanders running it ! good luck.....
p.s they never got a man in space it was propogandaa...:D

Spoken like a true Brit.

Well, for yer info - t'aint the Mainlanders runnin' it.
They just write the cheques.

A bunch of Singaporeans run it for them.
And they have every faith in the Philipinos.

Pinoy pilots working in Hong Kong ? Not surprising at all. There are now over 120,000 Pinays working in Hong Kong as domestic maids and this number once peaked at 200,000 just a few years ago ...
Filipino maid challenges HK rule denying residency | World | DAWN.COM
... they might as well stay for good and take over all the local jobs.

Some of you gents who seem a little uneasy about American dominance of the world should give a little thought to the following.

The Chinese actually got the idea from big billboards outside American military bases.
"Pardon our noise.. It is a sound of FREEDOM" on one side of the billboard and the American flag waving proudly on the other half of the sign.

Nothing bragging about these eye catching signs, they just stand there for all to ponder. Think about this.

Algol, the tail marking is known as the 'brushwing' (the 'swoosh' belongs to Nike). It replaced the 'cucumber sandwich' on the tail and I understand it was created by a local Chinese designer.

The more irreverent among us would call it the 'skidmark'.

parabellum;

I'm a little surprized at what you have just said about accidents and incidents considering you an ex Singapore Airlines expatriate Captain. Have you forgotten that your old airline is rated the best airline in the world and that it is run 99% exclusively by Chinese. Jumpa lagi nanti.

Prince of Dzun.

sing airlines
 

"best airline in the world" - really in what terms? It's a gov. airline so that speaks for itself and lets not mention the safety record- or have you forgotten TPE RWY 05 a few years ago? Actually it wasn't a runway but a taxyway.

...not to mention the SQ A340 which turned into a momentarily ballistic object over Australia when the crew turned hydraulic pumps off to balance fuel :hmm:. (That's why the push buttons are now guarded.) 'Air pocket' I think the press release said.

Also SQ 747 severe tail strike in AKL, due to grossly incorrect RTOW input, then cocked up approach and go-round. They nearly lost the jet. And of course the dreadful error in Taipei.

The 'Singapore Girl', albeit a little tired these days, is still a good marketing ploy but the safety record isn't exemplary.

so if there are delays now what happens when the new south Beijing airport comes online 6 years hence ?
Beijing's new airport expects inaugural flight in 2017 - China.org.cn

meanwhile Guangzhou will be on its 5th runway and Shenzhen's third.
and I am sure (not) that the chinese military that controls all the airspace around PRD will be happy to hand extra slots to CX/ KA ?

1/2 Foxconn has already abandoned PRD and moved to near where the new south Beijing airport will be and the other half Foxconn left to Chongqing (from where China is building a railway line that will reach Europe in 14 days transit.)

routetuner/Captain Dart;

What's with this dredging up the past to try and prove some sort of ethnological point ? All airlines experience problems of one sort or another and it would not hurt for you two experts to have a cursory look around your own backyard.

Prince of Dzun.

Here's a serious question for all you CX and KA guys out there.
Hong Kong is a small place, which now has 3 native airlines operating within it's market. Two of them are unionized, the third is not.
The two which are unionised - have separate unions? Am I correct? That's what I'm told.
If true, I find it bizarre, especially after the merger(?) of the two companies.

Why does HK need two different unions?

Following on from that - if there was a single union representing ALL pilots in HKG wouldn't it make sense to invite the pilots of the new un-unionised company to join? Don't you think it would make a lot more sense to be in the business now of dragging up the terms and conditions of those new pilots to CX levels? Because if you don't, you will inevitably be dragged down to theirs.

ethnological
 

Ethnological! Wow what does that mean?
My point was state the facts as they are /were. Greatest airline? Quantify it. Sing air greatest- Quantify it and don't miss out the relevent facts. They( sing air) are a pampered breed and should not be mentioned in the same breath as CX.

Algol

Now you really are showing your lack of knowledge! Ever heard of HKALPA?

HKA and HKE are hardly 'native" considering they are owned by Hainan, what is your beef were you turned down by the other two native airlines?

HKALPA - riiiiight.
So what do they do, besides produce nice Safety circulars once a year?
And what then is the HKAOA? Why is THAT needed?
And that other thing - the DPA? What's THAT all about?

Mind your own business about my motives.
I'll ask the questions.

Algol, they are blind!

From what you post it sounds as though you really don't know anything at all about Singapore Airlines routetuner.

All airlines have had their problems, LH at Kai Tak, AF off a small island with a B744, BA in the game park, QF at BKK, the last one could very easily have been as bad as SQ at TPE, (it wasn't a taxiway, it was a parallel runway that was under repair).

You will be telling us next that SQ get preferential treatment from ATC at Changi - before you do please take the trouble to go up and visit ATC, then you will see that everyone gets treated the same. If you want to see ATC bias in action try getting the right hand westerly runway at FRA when there is a LH anywhere near!

Algol

Sums you up really a d***.

Harlem, blind doesn't even come near. You forgot Deaf and Dumb too.

Things are changing alright, but the DPA, the HKOA and HKALPA are like three little monkeys - refusing to see the writing on the wall.

HKOA, you lost your last great battle against your management, and the latest news - Direct LHS! If true, what are you going to do about it? Maybe, er, another hiring ban?

DPA, your company is being swallowed up and incorporated into CX. Are you going to go to war with the HKOA over seniority?

HKALPA, why do you exist really? You call yourselves an 'umbrella organisation'. Rubbish. The umbrella organisation is IFALPA. You are an ineffectual redundancy. As far as I can see your role is to try to act as middle man between the DPA and HKOA.

The divisions are obvious and will soon be exploited to the max by managements at all three HKG companies. The only hope you have is in unity and concerted reaction and resistance.

But if all you are interested in is - who did I want to work for, you are a self deluded little monkey, bound for the slaughter.

Actually, Wiki indicates the term Cathay was coined sometime between 900AD and the 1600's, long before the Europeans did anything nasty other than trading, and for much of that period China was the world's biggest economy.

Marco Polo took spaghetti down the Silk Road, and that went down very well.:rolleyes:

para
 

It was not a runway under repair- it has been a taxyway for 20 years! You haven't been around for too long obviously.
sing atc is the most biased in the world- I don't need to go to the sing (airlines) atc centre to tell me that.
CX is the best managed airline in the world, it has a fantastic safety record and the workforce is the envy of most airlines.
Do you work for sing airlines? sounds like it- anyway doesn't matter to me, I know who I want to fly for and it ain't sq.
Get your facts right next time- but then again you live in the lion city and fed b***s***.

09 Aug 2011
Explorer Marco Polo 'never actually went to China' - Telegraph
:=

At the time of the accident I think you'll find it was nominated 05R - at least that's what Wikipedia says.

STP

Steve,

You are indeed correct. It was a runway under repair

Well done routetuner, 100% wrong again!!! The SQ accident happened on a runway under repair, and the side and centrline lights were reported as being on. Yes I had ten good years on the 744 with SQ and flew out of TPE many times.

Regarding ATC I will treat your comments with the contempt they deserve, if you are not prepared to visit ATC and see for yourself then anything you have to say is worthless.

- so says routetuner, Yeah, right!!!:rolleyes:

(P.S. You are a good Troll though!).

:rolleyes:
Keep on whistlin' in the dark.

tpe 05
 

It was originally built as a runway- 05L and 05R .It was stopped being used as a runway 20 years ago and only used as a taxyway from then on. We always used it as a taxyway. Obviously it is much wider than a taxyway and that is why sq lined up on it in LV conditions as it looks like a runway. And yes they were working on it as sq hit what ever was left there. I don't know what markings were left on it regards being 05R, possibly there were. Whatever was marked on it was removed at some point. On the airport chart it was 05R but not anymore. Anyway it hasn't been used as runway for a long time, it was used as a taxyway. If sq had a correct runway ident procedure in their SOPs then the accident may not have happenend.

and

At the time of the SQ accident it was still a runway under repair and illuminated as a runway, see here: ASN Aircraft accident Boeing 747-412 9V-SPK Taipei-Chiang Kai Shek Airport (TPE)


You really must make a bigger effort to get your facts right routetuner. (keep trolling though, we all enjoy a good laugh and your apology is accepted).

Parabellum, not exactly, the centerline lights of 05R were green (taxiway) lights not white runway lights, the edge lights were a combination of runway and taxiway lights, plus it's only 45m wide not 60m like 05L.

Calling 05R a runway is a stretch it was available for takeoff only at pilots request and only under certain weather conditions.

para
 

I'll say again it was discontinued as a runway 20 years ago. if sq had correct SOP's for that situation it would not have happenend. It was an accident waiting waiting to happen to to the uninformed- call them naive if you want to. Let me ask you how do/did you know you were on the correct runway for in an LVP? How does your wonderful sq do it now?