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Hong Kong Airlines order A380s
Hong Kong Airlines Ltd. will order Airbus SAS A380s as it challenges larger neighbor Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. (293) and adds flights in China, the world’s fastest- growing air-travel market. Your move Cathay, HKG passengers will have a choice to fly on a clapped out 744 or brand new A380s. |
or brand new 330/777/350's!
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To a well financed Airline with even a slight respect for the travelling public, CX must seem like a desirable opponent. If this happens I wonder how many more 'Best Business Class in Asia/The World/The Universe' we will win??
How did we win any in the first place? |
I agree with Sweep the leg, who gives a toss if HKA have A380s or space shuttles- the thing is yet to prove it's worth and is a mega backpacker carrier at best. Give me small planes and upgrades anyday!:ok:
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You would not be saying that if they suddenly announced an order for CRJs.
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Go rockstar it up in an EK F Class Private Suite, then try and convince yourself it isn't a gamechanging aircraft ... :ok:
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Exactly.
I've done EK F suite and their J seat.. hung out @ the bar in with sofa on the upper deck.. It's the only way to travel. and they charge less for it than CX tries to for their regional A330/B777 J seat.. No question. |
Your move Cathay, HKG passengers will have a choice to fly on a clapped out 744 or brand new A380s. |
BA Too
Next year BA will have their new 380s on the HKG route, that route to LHR is enough alone for CX to need the 380 and quick.
In 2013 HKA will be bigger than KA. Who cares where they fly them STP it is surely time to take them seriously. I also hear that CX are losing local pilots to them too, they are competition in many ways! |
Who cares where they fly them STP it is surely time to take them seriously. As far as local pilots leaving CX in favour of HKA is concerned, that would only become an issue if significant numbers were involved. What that number might be, who knows? That said, your point about HKA being competition in more ways than one is valid. |
As far as local pilots leaving CX in favour of HKA is concerned, that would only become an issue if significant numbers were involved. What that number might be, who knows? That said, your point about HKA being competition in more ways than one is valid. Too bad its open skies and more opportunities for employment in all fields and choices for passengers too! :ok: No one need to play God either. :D Good luck and happy landings! |
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NYC...can a 380 fly direct to NYC with decent payload and fuel? I don't think so.
LON...how are they going to get landing slots??? |
LON may not mean LHR.:)
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Originally Posted by badairsucker
NYC...can a 380 fly direct to NYC with decent payload and fuel? I don't think so.
In London, I think they would be going to LGW like Oasis did. |
In London, I think they would be going to LGW like Oasis did. LON may not mean LHR. If it's LGW then I can't see it working as there is a poor connection from LGW to the rest of the UK etc and too much competition from CX, BA, QF, Virgin and ANZ from LHR to HKG. Ever thought why there are NO services from LGW to HKG. Only time will tell. |
[quote]QF operate their A380s LAX-MEL daily, that route with the winds has a longer air nautical miles than JKF-HKG[/b]
QF's international model isn't exactly one which Cathay are trying to follow, for obvious reasons.. A380 JFK-HGK would be a huge u-turn in profit. |
Given the dump that is LHR, I would gladly fly to LGW instead!
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Originally Posted by Steve the Pirate
There's no point getting shiny new aircraft if they've got limited routes to justify their purchase.
Do you think for a minute that HX may just have a business plan that you do not know about ?
Originally Posted by ETOPS240
A380 JFK-HGK would be a huge u-turn in profit.
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Oh Yes they can
HX is owned by HNA group. They have significant financial backing, and a very lucrative domestic market in the 2nd largest economy in the world. As the only non-state aligned carrier and constrained by the central planning of the mainland government, expansion internationally is somewhat muted. This explains why HX was purchased in the firstplace; as it provides a relatively limitless expansion plan unfettered by central planning and with the HKG limit on AOCs allowed at any one time and the further limit of only 2 HKG carriers on any one route allows access to any market they choose ex HKG
The political will is on the side of HX and why not, after all they Have "Hong Kong" written on the side of their aircraft and display no hangover of the Colonial era. CX is In for a battle. But spare a thought for KA because this outfit is now dead in the water and nobody seems to want to acknowledge it. There senior management have admitted to having no idea about the company's future (as CX refuses to make a commitment to them. |
The political will is on the side of HX and why not, after all they Have "Hong Kong" written on the side of their aircraft and display no hangover of the Colonial era. Absolutely well said! :ok: Singapore Airlines is a good example too. Any buisness venture is a gamble. Its a open market and skies. Employees and customers have choices / options. :cool: |
For CX. We all know that business people like to arrive at the start of the work day, or leave at the end of the work day. Arriving or departing at any other time is not as popular. A389, however?? |
Good grief..
@Zeke
That's why I wrote: I don't think for one minute that this hasn't been considered by HKA management but we can only speculate whether or not they will compete with CX on the same routes |
Don't get to excited
The only reason the article mentions HKA and the purchase of A380's is that Hainan need to purchase the aircraft through Airlines to avoid paying large tax's in mainland China. It's all a tax dodge. Don't think for one minute that Airlines will operate a single A380.
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Another hostage to fortune.........
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Yes. Make a note.
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It is confirmed now that HKA is getting 14 x B748 instead of A380 .....
Update as of end of Day 3, 8:00pm Hong Kong Time Airbus: A318 Nil A319 Republic Airlines(Frontier)- 40 A319NEO (LOI only) A320 Air Lease Corporation - 20 A320NEO and 14 NEO options AviancaTACA- 18 A320, 22 A320NEO CIT Leasing - 50 A320NEO Garuda - 15 A320, 10A320NEO GECAS - 60 A320NEO JetBlue - 40 A320NEO Republic Airlines(Frontier)- 40 A320NEO (LOI only) SAS - 30 A320NEO A321 Air Lease Corporation- 1 and 16 A321NEO JetBlue- Conversion of 30 existing A320 orders to A321 TransAsia - 6 A321NEO A330 Air Lease Corporation- 11 Saudi Arabian - 4 (300) A340 nil A350 ALAFCO- 6 (900) A380 nil Boeing 737 Air Lease Corp- 20 (800) MIAT Mongolian Airlines- 2 (800) Norwegian Air Shuttle- 12 (800) + 3 (Icelandair booked earlier) Malaysia Airlines- 10 (800) (previously unidentified) UTAir- 7 (700) and 33 (800) 747 Hong Kong Airlines- 14 (747-8i) Qatar Airways- 1 (747-8i BBJ) Unidentified- 2 (747-8i) GECAS- 2 (747-8F) (LOI only) 767 MIAT Mongolian Airlines- 1 (300ER) LAN- 6 (300ER) 777 Air Lease Corp- 5 (300ER) GECAS- 6 (300ER)(LOI only) Aeroflot- 8 (300ER) (previously unidentified) Qatar Airways- 6 (300ER) (previously unidentified) 787 Air Lease Corp- 4 (787-9) Bombardier CSeries Korean Air- 30 (CS300, LOI only) Unidentified- 16 (CS 100) VistaJet- 10 (Global 8000) AVWest- 4 (Global 7000) AVWest- 2 (Global 8000) Embraer EMB 190 series Sriwijaya Air- 20 and 10 options Kenya Air- 10 and 10 options Air Lease- 2 GECAS- 2 Air Astana- 2 and 2 options. ATR Azul Trip Linhas- 10 (600) GECAS- 15 and 15 options (600) Skywest Aviation (Australia)- 4 (500) China COMAC Ryanair- Signed as partner in development of C919 aircraft Sukhoi PT Sky Aviation (Indonesia)- 10 (SSJ-100s) Blue Panorama- 12 (SSJ-100s) Conclusion: By end of Day of 3, Airbus continues to reap in more order for A320NEO family. Republic Airlines ordered 80 A319NEOs and A320NEOs at 40 each. Republic Airlines will be launch customer for A319NEO. AviancaTACA orders 18 non-NEO A320 and 33 A320NEOs. ALAFCO orders 6 A350, destined for Thai Airways. More order will be revealed especially AirAsia 'mega' order as well as some from Qatar Airways. As for Boeing, new widebody keeps flowing in. Hong Kong Airlines was the airline behind the 14 B747-8i orders yesterday. B767 passenger line scored another lifeline with 6 order from LAN. GECAS signed Letter of Intention for 6 B777-300ER and 2 B747-8F. UTAir orders 40 B737s. For other players, it has been relatively quiet. Each smaller players notched up some orders. VR :cool: |
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/uf/93648/phpamOJLv.png
No announcement has been made by Boeing indicating it is HX for the 747-8I, I have been told that these unidentified 747 commitments will only be firmed up next week. Boeing updates their active orders page every Thursday, it will be interesting to see what that says on Friday HKG time. The Boeing Company HX was very close to signing both A380 and 747-8 deals at the Asian Aerospace in Hong Kong a few months back, Boeing even put the below graphic on the website, and Airbus executives were seen leaving the show with an A380 model painted up in HX livery. http://www.airliners.net/uf/93648/middle/phpiziWD1.png |
It is confirmed now that HKA is getting 14 x B748 instead of A380 ..... PARIS: Airbus confirms undisclosed tentative A380 deal So 15 x 747-8I plus 10 x A380s. Looks like if you're on local terms HKA may be the place to go for a quick Command. |
Quick command!
.....or a base if not on local terms?
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Or if you want to go to a carrier that is actually growing... :rolleyes:
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Or if you want to go to a carrier that is actually growing... |
the subtle difference is money...
Oasis was privately funded, HKA has the HNA group behind it. Mainland tax dollars.... |
Never mind the 380, have they managed to get their 330 loads over 50% yet ?
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What CX management obviously simply do not understand , customer want the A380, period. All my friends, including those who know absolutely nothing about aviation, want to know if "my" airline will buy them.
How can JS say that the Cathay brand is one of his main objectives and then allow another HK airline to get all the limelight for ordering it first? Why not get only a handfull, deploy them to some prestigious destinations like London, get a luxurious cabin and fill it up with journalists? IFor Christs sake, lease them for a few years and then get rid of them if they are really that bad, nobody will care about it afterwards. It's simply about getting the first mover bonus and run..f you look at how Emirates and others managed to become household names within only a few years you really wonder how exactly Cathay wants to compete on a marketing level. The odd quarter page in the FT won't do it I am afraid.. |
The plot thickens
I hear reports that the Chinese Government have blocked the Airbus order, in retaliation for EU Emissions Trading Scheme plans
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the subtle difference is money... Oasis was privately funded, HKA has the HNA group behind it. Mainland tax dollars.... |
Dude,
The Chinese government is a group of "multi multi billionaire(S) willing to throw all their money away". And for them, as good communists, profit is a secondary motivation. Plus they have George Soros and his billions: On November 30, 2007, a new company called Grand China Airlines Holding Company (GCAHC) was formed under the initiative of the HNA group's largest operational entity, Hainan Airlines. The airline planned to merge its operations with all HNA Group's aviaition subsidiaries. The new holding company was held jointly by Hainan province government (48.6%), HNA group (32.8%) and George Soros (18.6%). As a result, a new airline called Grand China Air (Chinese: 大新華航空) was founded. According to the plan, the former four airlines under HNA group, Hainan Airlines, Shanxi Airlines, Chang'an Airlines, and China Xinhua Airlines should be transferred into Grand China Air in the near future. |
711,
There is a big difference between what "all your friends" and journalists seeking big stories want versus what is best for the airline. CX is all about making money, not just creating publicity. Your lease idea sounds like a very expensive scheme to create a short-term buzz for CX while a sustained advertising campaign would probably be cheaper and more effective. CX is all about return on investment. When they buy or lease aircraft the objective is maximum profit given a whole range of potential market conditions. I'm not sure the A380 does that better than the -8I or even the big twins. How many people would ever buy an F class suite on a CX A380? I don't know the answer, but I would bet it is less than .01% of CX passengers. So why do we care so much about this service offering? Maybe we should be providing worldwide corporate jet service for all those ultra rich folks as well... I think your A380 proposition has more to do with what you need/want than what is best for CX, and I don't want to even imagine what shortcomings you might be compensating for:ooh: CXorcist |
cxorsist,
Actually airlines currently operating the 380 have reported that their flights operated by that aircraft have an unusually high demand over other types operating the same route. I have no doubt that CX could easily fill a first class suite on the 380 on certain routes. Whether that is enough to offset the huge financial costs of buying the thing in the first place I dont know. |
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