Sir KDM Lowe

One off waivers from the 5 year validity to a P2X rating doesn’t imply that the CAD will just give them out when all SO’s are going beyond 5 years to upgrade to JFO. If the “Normally” becomes greater than 5 years the CAD will want a fix. From what I understand of the proposed P1X rating it will be open ended.

We all know that CAD stands for Cathay Aviation Department, I doubt CX will have any trouble with the P2X issue, I'm more worried about the CAD saying yes with a P1X pilot you can go 3 crew long haul or whatever else CX deems P1X can be used for.

If we can go with Capt, F/O and two P2X S/Os now, looks like the P1X is ripe for Capt, F/O and one P1X S/O or cruise pilot or whatever else they'd like to call it.

Brian Potter,
I'm sure you mean well, and we get your point, but the SO intake was how the system worked if you joined in Hong Kong....until the DEFO period..... I can assure you that even though you have "served your time" there are still SOs here with more experience than you.
Good luck with whatever path you choose, however.:ok:

The Wraith

Not quite true my friend.

DEFO was the method of entry until the local cadet scheme, then it became a mixture of DEFO /SO and Cadet. The system then changed to Cadet / SO with a short period of DEFO a couple of years ago.:)
(Not many people know that! to quote an incorrectly attributed quote of a Mr M Caine)

Still waiting no reponce. any idea how long to take get repond?:zzz:

Forever, 'Ace', if the standard of English and spelling in your post is the same as that in your application.

Are you sure that you are up to being trained to fly wide-bodied airliners, carrying hundreds of people, all over the planet?

I'm hoping Spacey was having a laugh. Otherwise.....

box

Yeah Boxy, the usual caveats; it may be a wind up, or he had a few beers before posting. But my response still stands; just in case he's for real.

And the way things are going with the 'vision' for icadets, fast-trackers and MPLs in order to avoid paying good money for quality crew, I am becoming glad that retirement is not that far off...

....and many current SOs have spent more than 14 years flying - and are still serving their time. But, you want to jump ahead of them because why? Perhaps you dont fully understand the situation.

Yawn.

It is the same story every time an expansion comes along. There are not enough trainers to do the task.

You can't just upgrade another dozen training Captains in a month or two and then solve the problem. That is just like being short of "pilots" and simply hiring S/O's. The Training team need to be expanded in depth to cope with an increased task. This needs to take place before the new basic trainees enter the system, since you need training resources to train the new trainers.

The result is that the available training sectors limit the expansion for the whole airline.

If you need one new pilot....

To upgrade an S/O, you first need to factor in the training requirement of his replacement S/O. That is 10 training sectors, mostly ULH. In addition, about 20% need more training.

Then his/her 60 sector JFO course needs to be accounted for (even though about 30-40% check out at 40 sectors)

To recruit a Direct Entry F/O the programme is 30 sectors of line training. Approximately 30% need some extra sectors. The record is 27 extra. (still held by the 74F!)

The number crunchers calculate that in balance it is best to recruit DE F/O's onto a base during an expansion (when training sectors are at a premium). This is even before the costs of based and expat pilots are considered.

I've spent 20 and so what?

Why didn't they just join as DEFO? There were SOs that jumped ship and applied for DEFO when they had the chance.

Most of our SO's have more than enough experience to apply for a DEFO position. Maybe didn't have the right passport for the ports in question.

or saw that there was more money to be made based in HKG and as well, better patterns and destinations.

DEFO
 

:ugh:(hopefully NEVER again!!!! )


I said that when they brought in B scale to undercut me but it happened again and again and again and...

cxflyer

Didn't YOU join as a DEFO then if you are A scale!:rolleyes:

Wouldn't it be better to say: "DESO (and cadets), hopefully NEVER again!!!!"

I mean, it is really worth having 4000h+ pilots who don't fly the plane, for half the salary?
There would be no problems if there were no SO's.

Come on, let's upgrade everybody, and get rid of the ridiculous p2x rating / SO rank

The standard response, whether true or not, is that there are not enough sectors in the network to keep everyone current. It is particularly problematic when most captains think they should fly 1 of every 2 ULH sectors despite there being 2 FO's who need to stay current as well as gain experience, and some famous captains fly 2 of 3 or 3 of 4 sectors and think nobody notices.

Give the based guys a few regional flights in HK every 2/3 months. Problem solved?

That would cost the company an extra 10 cents, so it's not going to happen.

...the based guys already get regional patterns nearly every month. check your facts before posting. As for Captains 'thinking they need' sectors....in the end we are responsible for the safety of the aircraft and we have to maintain competency. If you don't like that fact, then join a regional and do six sectors a day.

ps. the Captains that fly 2 of3 or 3 of 4.....don't care if you notice.

Current or ??
 

I understand being responsible for the safety of the aircraft, but if somebody has to fly 2 out of 3 or even 1 out of 2 to feel proficient, maybe this job is not for him.

...you're an FO obviously... and of course you would know what it takes for a Captain to stay proficient ? If a Captain is based, 1 out of 2 means two to three sectors a month. About minimal to stay properly proficient. I realise that doesn't fit with your agenda however.

Does that Profit guy have a life?
 

Oh yeah, of course.....because no FO or SO has EVER been a captain before joining CX...or flown single pilot high performance jets all by himself (as the captain) that require 1000 times more brain power and talent than being an airline pilot on Y1 or yet another ILS somewhere...or trained other pilots with zero or little experience unlike the airline FOs with 2000-15000 hours and 10-25 years of experience...or done anything as demanding as.....oh, nevermind, no point upsetting your little fantasy perception about yourself, or you might have to go back to worrying about your willy!

Agenda? Work = money deposited into bank account.

.....ooooohh, a bit techy aren't we? Sure, all the FO's I fly with are ace's. Cathay only hires the best..... All those ex Beech 1900 skippers are really the 'best of the best'. Lucky for CX they were available instead of all those ex BA/BC/QA/BM 747/DC10/etc drivers they managed to get in the 80's and early 90's.

Will it really take a list of all the captains' screw ups to shut you up and get you off your high horse? Or just the list of recent ones at CX? Or just this year's demotions maybe? Get over yourself, buddy....it ain't that hard, and nobody gives a crap anyways.

Wankers with your attitude, that's what we call the law of unintended consequences, of seniority in this case.

I wonder how you went from being such a fully unreliable, incompetent, inexperienced, unworthy FO to suddenly being so awesome, valuable and special. Oh yeah, you didn't!

Airprofit,
No, I am afraid you're wrong, I am a CN and so I think I know what it takes for ME to stay proficient, although that's up for others to decide several times every year. So far without any problems.

I know I can only speak for myself, but I take 2 per month and hand the rest out to whoever is in need of a sector, weather etc not being a factor. If you need more - fine, I still think for a CN at CX 2 per month plus being a part of the operating crew (i.e. in the seat) for the rest of them is enough. We also have a responsibility to make takeoffs and landings available to FOs and JFOs, and it is beyond belief when some CN will not allow an FO to fly when going to an RT/PC or linecheck or has a TL on his roster.

What I do know is jumping to conclusions based on insufficient information is the road to all evil !!!

Respectfully,

Cider30

Thread drift ECAM actions
 

Everyone should know by now that I like a good thread drift as much as the next person. I'm not sure how this one has gone from hiring to competence but it's amusing nonetheless as showcases bias, superiority complexes and the inability of some to have a rational debate without spittle impacting the faces of their opponents (figuratively speaking, of course). All at the stroke of a few keys on a keyboard. So, well done whoever made the first nudge on the rudder pedals.

As far as sharing the flying goes, isn't there something in Ops A at 8.3.4.1 about this? Finally, currency doesn't necessarily equal competence, whichever seat you happen to be sitting in.

STP

Actually, Air Profit, it seems that YOU are the tetchy one! Thank god guys like you are here to save us all from ourselves!
Now, how to spell TOSSER......mmmm, that's it!:D

Back to the Thread
 

Let us suppose that CX is not able to hire the required number of crews for the 40 or so additional airframes arriving over the next 3 years....

What do we suspect (or dread) their scheme and plans involve? All those of us who have been here for more than half a dog watch know that there will be contingency plans being drawn up, right now, as we argue amongst ourselves about trivia.

This could be an even worse scenario than DEFOs (and I'm not an advocate of that).

Yes Max, I share your cynicism. However, yet another glossy offer to 'upgrade your career' with CX in Flight 28th June issue (second week running), which incidentally is upstaged by a larger Emirates ad on the opposite page!

The CX ad just gives a reference to the web site but the Emirates ad refers to taking your career 'further, faster' (italics mine). How many A380s have they got on order again?

Two large and growing airlines duking it out for recruits. Who'd 'a' thunk it?

Now you wouldn't happen to be the famous (in CX) skipper who says "I'm doing all the sectors irrespective of anyone's lack of currency or checks coming up, I had it tough when I was an F/O so I'm passing it on"

:D

Hahaha, I may as well join the cock fight........
Just because you....
1. Flew upside down
2. Took it up the ass
3. Said " YES SIR" as part of your job description,

does not make you any better than an ex Beech 1900 skipper.

...not to mention that it actually takes a lot more talent, skill, thinking, decision-making, airmanship and effort to be a Beech 1900 (or similar) captain (or FO) than it does to fly a big jet at a large, regulated, experienced major airline equipped with worldwide IOC/dispatchers/load controllers/DDG/ACARS/SATCOM/top-end simulators and a staff of thousands behind the scenes.

I'll just pop and have a coffee boys, please, just carry on.

IRON SKILLET

OR

Which is it SKYGOD and if it is such a dreadful job why are you here wasting your obvious "talent"!:rolleyes::ugh:Or do you just want the 4 bars on your jimjams.

Cheers Iceman!
Game, Set, and Match....

When he does get 4 bars, you can be sure his jimjams will be made of silk.

Just like the teenagers at McDonald's and all other employees in the world, the ONLY reason anyone exchanges their time and qualifications to work for anyone is because they are offered money to do so. Just like a hooker. Simple.

1, 2, 3 or 4 bars is all seniority-based noise.

There are a couple of other seniority-based employee type of "professional" careers in the world....just like ours. None have anything to do with the highest paid clowns being any more special than the others in the list, myself included, it's just a matter of time, and luck, until retirement age removes the most senior or oldest from the list. Still, many seem to attribute their fortunate timing to their abilities....blah blah blah. Get over yourselves.

For many CX pilots, what they were doing before was massively more fun, challenging, interesting, difficult, special and rewarding, as captains or whatever....and now this boring easy crap (with a large % of dickheads to put up with) is ONLY about the money. Yet many others cannot face the day without their little title or embarrassing uniform and hat, as if anyone gives a crap.

Iron Skillet

At least those who come on here and argue with themselves have the sense to do it under two (or maybe more) pseudonyms. You just make an ar5e out of yourself by arguing with yourself on a public forum.

BTW some of us are here because this is what we wanted to do for a very long time before actually getting the job. Of course the money is important, often more so since we live in such an expensive city but it's not the be-all and end-all.

Are you from the USA? I only ask because of the skillet in your name?

Why are so many of your compatriots so unhappy here?

Iron Skillet

You just 'nailed it' !! that's all about it, why we are here-
NO fun!,NO challenge!,Many guys like 'M.Reheat', but more money than at home!!