Sorry if the earlier post in my username upset some people - it wasn't me who put it there. I had used a computer at work to while away some dull hours and logged on to PPRuNe. Obviously, I didn't log off properly and later, someone else using PPRuNe on the computer saw someone else logged in and decided to add a few posts using my name!

Top tip - log off PPRuNe properly if using a communal computer!

I've seen 350 at Limes beach but not for a while, needs to be middle of the night. It were a chief pilot too! I know Dan could do it cos he used to fly the big V! I've only ever managed around 320.
Dan, I hope they didn't knock out a couple of emails on your behalf as well.

When Abusiveness of Roster Looms
 

STOP belittle yourselves in front of Management and play "BIG Brother" in the Union of ONLY 30% of representation (or less :}). Exercise your energy in your small little empire at Kai Tak. Your letter to Management on your new definition of shift duty and roster system under abuse reconfirms my decision of not being a member - CORRECT!

The fatigue you mentioned applies on you exactly when you were in TearU, 408 and/or at the hot seat. SPE might have recorded someone's snoring.

By the way, it seems you spent genuine effort on recruiting SATCO/ATFSO to become your private club member rather than rescuing the dying Union. A piece of suggestion to you: Since you have such a zealousness in managing club matters, why not write another letter to Management requesting to relocate your club at Sung Wong Toi Road to ATCX.

The coming AGM is your exit.

Fly 747 - I hope not! But I doubt it as I had logged out of the computer, but PPRuNe was still logged in my usename. I've since been back and logged off.

It would have to be 345 at Limes these days. Too close to the ''ding ding ding''.



And to whomever it was who used my log in, It's my fault for not logging off I know - but rather than use someone elses name to send abusive posts, use your own. PPruNe's anonymous anyway!

foxtrot oscar foxtrot zulu
 

So what's your solution foxtrot zulu? Guess you're happy to sit back and put out your hand to receive the benefits that Unions (not just ours) have fought for over the decades. You think your current salary is what it is because the Government was feeling benevolent?? I suspect the only snoring going on is from you.

Or if I read your b/s correctly, you think there is nothing wrong with the way the roster and leave system is being manipulated by Management?
Do you think the numbers they produce bear any relevance to the true problem? Who cares what percentage of leave requests are approved. That means Jack Sh1t.

Now lets not blame CAD exclusively here. Why aren't the THB and CSB brought to account for their decisions not to approve staffing increases over the years while they know damn well that traffic has grown 100% in the last 13 years?

Perhaps someone from the SCMP who reads this could start asking some hard questions at the Bureau level. Don't let them hoodwink you with their recent too-little-too-late approval for Students. With training taking over 5 years and at least 20 controllers due for retirement in the next 2 years, the horse has well and truly bolted.

Re: China Daily
 

Read the China Daily not the SCMP. Another piece of journalistic and sensation-seeking rubbish. Unbalanced and filled with personal negativities.

Put the roster and leave issues to one side.

For those grumpy and frustrated controllers who were interviewed, you should be ashamed of yourselves for suggesting that a rise of incidents has to do with fatigue and causing futher distress to a fellow ATCO involved in the incident highlighted. Where is the blame-free culture that fellow ATCOs are supposed to uphold as well?

Truly unprofessional statements to make and not called for.

Why, FFS?
Thats the crux of the problem you idiot. Who say's the rise in incidents is not due to fatigue? Have a look into the eyes and faces of the young ones- they're f:mad:d already. Ready for 68 movements an hour boys and girls? Its just around the corner. Or are you going to show some solidarity and put your foot down and say no-we're not doing it. Stuff your target movement numbers. Start shutting down a few sectors- we don;t have the staff to man them.

When is someone going to admit that they stuffed up and didn't recruit enough people 5 years ago?

I see you journos didn't do what was suggested and go to the Bureau level and rattle a few cages. Why wouldn't they approve additional controllers in 2006 when CAD told them there would be a shortage. Even the Dir Gen on day 1 in his job told them they were 50 short! Guess he was shut up quick smart.
So now in 2011, with a high % of Approach controllers over 60 (some 63 can you believe! - nowhere else in the world will you find 63 year old radar controllers still doing Approach at a 1000+ movement a day airport!!) and a heap of the locals due for retirement, the Bureua sh1t themselves and say, ok ok you can take on 30 students
Holy crap, it will be 2016 before these young ones are of any use to the system. Meanwhile at least 30 controllers will retire in the next 3 years and we're back to square one!
If ever there was a reason to tell Airport Authority not to bother with a third runway coz CAD can't even find the controllers to run the show, AND GET LEAVE THEY ARE ENTITLED TO, then this is it.

Yaumo.

Contradicting years of research on Human Factors, you suggest that roster and leave issues have no bearing on the number of incidents. Interesting reading indeed – can you fill us in a bit on your revolutionary theory please? You don't seem to understand the meaning of 'blame-free culture' either – it refers to ATC management (not) just automatically looking for somebody to blame, but being constructive about it.....see?


Anyway, enjoy your 3 days off!

Controller in Fragrant Harbour have no fatigue cos they all have early-go almost every shift. It is their wild private life making them fatigue.

Here we go again.......!

Mr Sap,
Agree with everything you say IMHO.AA could always contract ATC out to a contractor.NATS,SERCO,etc would be grateful for the passing trade.
Beach
I preferred the BAC 1-11 to the Trident(ground gripper).Useless 5 engined pile of Auto land junk.

Dycer:cool:

Never flown an aircraft which can use reverese in flight (Trident?) but I'm sure it would be useful for the Siera 5A with a shortcut! ;)

I think it's the SIERRA 5C arrival to the CANTO hold for you, my lad, until you can learn to spell. :)

Oops. :ouch:

Beach,
I think you've picked up the parliamo glasgow.
Sierrrrrrra aye.:ok:

Ouch, hoisted by my own petard, as we say down here, mes amis! :{

Or, Awaanboilyirheid, as they say, up in the other place! :\

On the beach

P.S. I'm beginning to think there may be something in this climate change after all. Four months ago it was very cold and now it's quite warm. :)

yaumokauchor

you are right, it is their wild life after work cause the majority of fatigue.

How stupid of us to forget that our whole life is dedicated to keeping that sh1thole running.
Of course we shouldn't be having a good time 'outside working hours'. As far as some are concerned we are ALWAYS available to keep the system going.:yuk:
Now pi$$ off and let me drink my beer in peace.

EARLY-GO and Yaumo.

OK; you 2 are right and I shall now share my secret with you:

I frequently suffer from fatigue and this has absolutely nothing to do with working 5 on - 1 day off most of the time and not getting my annual leave. It is exclusively due to my wild personal life so full of loose women, endless amounts of beer, whisky & wine as well as smoking joints practically every night. Actually, it is quite normal for me to roll around in my own vomit with the rats in the sewers of Wanchai 2 hours before the beginning of my shift, have a quick shower, throw some after-shave onto my face, and then off to control airplanes without being able to see straight – great fun I can tell you! Then – oh dear, after 2-3 minutes of my shift fatigue usually sets in!

Dammit – you guys are just too smart for me so please keep this secret for yourselves? BIG BIG SECRET!!!!! HUUUUUUUUSSHH!! OK?

If CAD cut their time off and didn't let them go on leave, then they'd be shifting 120 an hour!

On the beach (Is that a contrail I see? Oh no, it's just another volcanic ash plume!) :E