What Are You Voting
 

Lets get an online poll going, with some insight!

Now please be honest. dont try to corrupt the result!
Please No Bickering.


Please provide Rank/ Approx Age/ SLS.YES or NO or Maybe/ Cos 08 YES or NO or MAybe/

Me first..

FO/ 30's/ SLS Thinking NO but still Maybe/ Cos 08 100% NO

need more info.

NEED a AOA Forum night to hear it all in the "town hall"

Come on AOA, call a meeting at the very least.

No on COS 08; No brainer...

Need advice from AOA for the rest. CX has cut the grass below the AOA's feet. I have a feeling that there is some info that they cannot discuss through emails or website and would need to be passed from mouth to ear...

Thanks GE... so whats your vote!

Please start the vote!

FO in my 30's...... NO to SLS and NO to CoS08.

No matter what my mates say or what the AOA have to say (I'm a member) this is what I will be doing. I've had enough!!! I am sick and tired of having to fight for the contract that I signed! I just don't believe the company and all the bollocks.... enough is enough!

This is my way of making a stand.... and I can honestly say, if I get fired because of it... so be it! There is a reason why I have been doing another degree on the side. I love flying, but I'm not afraid to do something else. My wife and I are happy to live conservatively (spent my first 10 years in GA doing just that) until something else comes along.

Time to make a stand.... hope at least a few feel the same.

Ex Cathedra

So lets call an EGM on the matter.... I think it's a big enough deal to organise one within the next week. Thoughts?

I'm NO on both. There just isn't anything in it for me.

I don't care what the AOA says, in fact, after seeing their lame-ass response, I don't imagine I will stay a member for much longer. :yuk:

How can it be that they understand why the company is offering SLS, but that they don't agree. Sounds like a copout to me.

Negatory on both. Better yet, I'm just not gonna make a choice.

Nightwatch..............I agree, lets call an EGM.

This is too damn important to just let it slip by.

So talking is definitely due... This basically came out of nowhere.

The first thing we should try to get is MORE TIME.

Squak.... Its not the victories the AOA has achieved that keeps them worthy. Instead its the obstacle they provide that has preserved our conditions. Without em we would be all screwed. I admit the company does not respect em but they have preserved alot of things that would have been removed if not for the AOA. Without them no BPP cases would be on for SO's and eventually FO's we would all be too scared to stand up. Please dont go off on the negative because the company has decided to abuse its power and bypas the AOA. Their hands were tied to some degree and this is the best they can do at the moment.

Keep the votes coming!

Rage Against The Management!

RAT, I would give you the by-pass pay issue if it was a done deal, but it is only just beginning. It hasn't even been close to being resolved, so it might be a little early to be high-fiving each other on that one. Agreed, it is a noble cause and I'm glad to see it fought, but far from over.

Regardless of cathay's opinion of the AOA, the union's response to all of this is lame. I'm not asking them to call for a strike or complete chaos, but a simple denouncement of SLS and COS08 for the pieco'o ****t deals that they are. A simple "these deals are not worth looking at, we do not endorse either one, we have seen no proof that the company is in need of subsidies from the labor force, so we recommend you vote NO on both".

Everyone knows that this is an individual choice, so the AOA does not need to give us a disclaimer on the matter.

I would be very interested to see how the president personally votes on the COS08 proposal. :hmm:

30's, S/O, No/No

Agreed about a meeting!

No on Coso8 and no on sls because I am old and need to save for retirement as I am approaching 50 in NAM.

Capt/ USAB/ already enjoyed my UPL...(damn, needed the time off). However, NO to COS 08

Thanks guys keep it coming

Nope
 

S/O, 30(ish), No to CoS08 and No(altho maybe if I get it in one lot and a FIRM commitment that its payed back).....I, like alot of other S/Os have been royally screwed over re BPP, or the lack thereof, and now CX wants 2 weeks pay AND a sh!t deal with no BPP? There have been NO "assesments" in the last 5 months, despite "reassurances" that they would continue, our JFO upgrades are blowing out to nearly 4 years, Commands disappearing over the horizon, and we are basically being asked to pay for it....and before any Captains get on here and flame me, I have no problem with going to 65, I just dont think that this is the way to do it, having the junior crew esentially pay for the companys complete balls up over the years with the contracts.
Loyalty is a one way street it seems to mismanagement.:yuk:

And if your reading this NR et al....most of the S/Os Ive spoken with (straw poll) and new F/Os aren't signing up for this abortion either....well done:D

Couldnt agree more!

S/FO, Early 40's, Nyet to SLS, Nein to COS 08 or whatever other ridiculous COS **** they offer me.
I've had enough of their continuous lies. If they decide to fire me, so be it - Cathay is NOT the only airline out there and besides, I am fortunate that I have a degree in another profession that I can always return to.

To Tony, Nick and Richard, if you idiots are reading this, Hugs not Drugs.:=

If Management want to find extra money to preserve, start by making those responsible for your fuel hedges and cargo price fixing responsible for their actions.

Online Poll available here...
 

Mister Poll: SLS/Cos08

Results here:
Mister Poll: SLS/Cos08

SLS - OK, whatever...I was paid some extra bonus money in a good year, so now the company wants it back in a bad year, and if management is in it as well, so be it.

CoS 08. Look, the train has left the station on that one. We didn't stop it when it was offered to guys in 08, now it's the latest CX contract craze on the street. Are we expecting to improve our (Cos 99) contract conditions and leapfrog the 08 guys who took CoS 08 with our acceptance(so now WE get RA65 AND higher FO pay?). At least the Captain B scales are preserved, and the freighter seats - both left and right - will now pay higher salaries. Based FO's will take a pay hit, this is true, but this may be the opportunity cost of working 10 more years at 200K+. To me, this offer works - as I desire to NOT retire at 55, but I wish there was a better alternative offered and one that covers the entire pilot work force - BUT I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ELSE, NOR HAVE I HEARD ANYTHING BEING WORKED OUT! So........F*&^%$ Yes, now - but I'll wait a few days to see if the impossible happens (won't cost me anything, I hope). Now I'll go have another Hurricane.

Could not agree more with Night Watch.
F/O Mid 30'S.
NO & NO

I am completely perplexed as to why so many are even considering SLS. I don't care what your personal situation is, that's why we have annual leave. The situation now is completely different than what he had during SARS. Take SLS without any guarantees that it will all be paid back to you, and you are essentially sending the message "yes, I am overpaid". Talk about lowering the bar even further. This is nothing more than management wanting to exercise their control over you, power and greed at its finest!

Flap10: Most other airline managements I am familiar with exercise their control over others by making them redundant.

Vtwin,

Well then so be it, if the situation is that dire make people redundant! The company would like you to believe that they are offering SLS to avoid redundancies, but that is complete B:mad:S:mad:! We all joined the airlines knowing full well the advantages and disadvantages that seniority brings.

^^^whs :ok:

Pat Obrien-

How do you know you will want to fly past 55 when you get there? That is a big price to pay just to have the choice. Furthermore, there is compound interest to consider with the money we would give up. 200k/yr from 55-65 only has a short time to earn on itself. An extra 100k at age 30 or 40 would have another 25 and 15 years respectively versus 10. Besides that, not all of us are trying to fund our retirements from our salary alone. Many have side businesses and could use CoS99 pay for capital.

35yo F/O NO to Cos 08 and a maybe to SLS.

Anybody who tells me in 20 years I will have to retire at 55 is delusional. In that time frame if I hold a licence and a medical I will be alowed to fly...by LAW!!! COS 08 Has nothing for me except to give away any chance of bypass pay.

Thanks but no thanks....

1500Smooth

Interesting post. I happen to agree with your points regarding age 55, anyone telling me that I need to retire when I turn 55 is delusional.

Isn't that what me and others have been saying for some time now? Only to be told by many of your colleagues to go to h*ll and leave at 55 so they can get promoted faster.

Although I'm not thrilled with the terms of going beyond 55, I now have the security of knowing the issue is settled and I can feed my family for several more years.

I'm 53, and a Captian. I will vote Yes and Yes.

1500

OK, what happens between now and 20 years that makes RA55 unactionable by CX, by law? Maybe I'll change my mind......

Billy, no problem with guys saying no - but be careful with the compound interest element in the decision matrix. Looks good in the lab, but real life is a whole lot different, especially over 20 years - and those rate of returns may be better in the late years looking forward from today. If CX is just a way to earn some cash in the near future while your side business develops, yeah you'll probably be out way before 55 to make that career happen, so staying on CoS 99 makes sense.

Expected nothing less from you Raven.

You'll happily take SLS while having problems feeding your family......:yuk::yuk:

This whole discussion is pointless. Those who benefit from COS 08 will agree on it, those who don't won't. Simple.

I happen to agree with that too. The company has come up with at least 2 different contracts within the last 10 years, it's not about to stop. There will be other choices. The reason the company is so hurried to make us sign and saying that it's our last chance is precisely because they know it isn't...

Sysiphos:

Everybody doing what's in their best interest means CNs and SFOs going to COS08 and everybody else staying on COS99. This is actually detrimental to the company and beneficial to most of us.

There are many questions yet to be answered. The company wants us to make an irrational and uninformed decision. DO nothing until you are informed of the details pertaining to your case. Email the company to ask questions. They are receiving so many of them they can't answer them all. The FAQ they'll come up with will probably not cover everything that was asked.

I don't know about you guys, but I will not, I can not and I can't be expected to make a decision until all my questions have been answered...

Dragon69....

Gee...Oh gosh darn, did I let you down?

By the way where have you been? We've been having a civil dialogue while you were away? Have you been busy with your facebook or MSN? Was there a rap concert in town?

Learn any more swear words while you were away? I mean...like...any really cool ones?

FO, late 30ish, NAM, NO SLS because of the threatening tone taken in company comm. to us, NO Cos.08 unless they do something about the severe paycut I'd have to take for the next 10 years as an FO.

PatObrian, B!^#ch I told you to wait until the last day and told you why!!! Now stop this crazy talk already! You dig?!?:rolleyes:

Raven?
 

Raven, it's your call as to whether or not you agree to SLS/CoS 08 or any other change to your contract.

However, I think I saw you coming out of CX Coffee and it looked like you were crying, were they crocodile tears or were you laughing so hard at what you had just posted you cried?

I showed your post to my F/A gf, she didn't cry, but she did wet herself at the bit about having to go from A to B and still afford to feed your staving family!:}

Raven - actually you just voted yes. Once. No choice on SLS...:uhoh:

If you could not plan retirement over +/- 20 years on the best package in aviation ( CX A scale) how will 10 years on a very average package improve your lifestyle.

Welcome to how the rest live

I am with Pat.

I think it is pragmatic, unless you are

Based in NA

<35 almost anywhere

<35 and an SO in HKG

But if you are 40 plus and based in HKG then it might be better to have the option of RA65 for planning purposes.

So I guess I am yes. :{

Raven11

Many times in the past you have blamed the B scalers for joining on conditions lower than yours and hence being the root of the problem.

Good to see that after 20+ years of flying as an A scaler, you no longer have any real fiber to retire with some sense of dignity, and will happily accept a B- salary. What an honorable and commendable chap you are.

Now run along, the GMA is waiting for his toilet paper.

PS: WHAT THE FU:mad: ARE YOU ON ABOUT?????

Dragon

If you actually read my posts instead of losing your temper and posting like a child (that, BTW, is what I was getting on about) you would have gleaned that I don't blame the B scalers (unless I'm responding to insults from said group...like the two posts on this page from you for example). In fact, I have consistently asked for unity...the kind of unity that posters like you unwittingly fracture!

Now I ask you Dragon69, are you happy with the lack of unity that people like you have perpetuated, and where it has brought us?

So, just to be clear, Dragon.....I blame you!

Now you run along and ponder that! And please stay away from any keyboard while you're pondering!