Joe
 

No flaming from me.... not troubled by anything you wrote.

However, the problem is the company are not prepared to entertain anything other than "RA65-No BPP". As pilot's, rather than deal with this fundamental issue, we would prefer to engage in some Senior Pilot/Junior pilot "willy- waving".... oops sorry girls.. not sure what you do...

Mature farts
 

LG..you're absolutely spot on and I guess the 10 year to command thingy would be a tough one in today's climate. Having said that, pre 1985, 10 years to command was almost the norm. Last Officer Gosper being one example. Some of us were pretty lucky and managed to get the LHS, with early L1011 options, inside 4 years and strangely, 4 to 5 years for command appeared to set the benchmark to command for a while, ('85 to '86 joiners); that was to be unrealistic, as is the 10 year bench of today. Its a fickle business and what applies today, rapidly can become history tomorrow.

Farewell Classic Party
 

I believe an announcement is imminent, from the relevant fleet office, regarding the "Classic - End of an era" party.

All that has to be decided is at which branch of McDonald's it is to be held.

Daisy120
 

Be in no doubt... I am not talking 10 years to command, I am talking 10 years EXTRA.... bit of a tough one in any economic climate wouldn't you say?

Farties
 

yep, 10 years is hard yakka for sure but that was the norm for a lot of other firms with widebodies. it WILL change, its just a case of hanging in. A mate of mine has just been given notice from Bristows...the barrel is down, the fixed wing guys who hedged well are ok but the helo boys are in deep **** since North Sea is in retention....its the viscious circle again...grin and bare...the farties will help but in the end, its up to you.:bored:

Daisy120
 

For the third time... an increase in the RA from 55 to 65 will almost certainly mean an EXTRA 10 years to Command. To remove all doubt, if Command time was running at 5 years it, would become 15, if it was 10, it will become 20.

Yes the price of oil, recession, boom, bust, expansion, contraction will have an effect. What that effect will be you and I cannot quantify. But what I can say is that, all other things being equal, an increase in RA by 10 years, delays commands by 10 years.

Not looking for sympathy, just stating what I believe is an obvious fact and whilst not excusing or endorsing the tone of some of the posts on here, just highlighting why many hold strong views.

Could some of the CNs inform us of how many years it took to command in this company?

Quote: "Certainly many of the Flight Engineers at Virgin Atlantic went on to be pilots when VS phased out the classics."

Not as I remember it. Most of the Classics in VS went in a knee jerk reaction after 9/11 when the fleet was scrapped overnight. All of those FEs went with them. It was a cull and done without compassion. A couple of them learned about their unemployed state by ACARS - I kid you not! Two of the Classics subsequently continued on operating out of MAN when it was discovered that the knee jerk was too extreme. They were operated with TF registrations under Air Atlanta's AOC. Twenty four of the Classic pilots were retained on the fleet, but many of the FEs on those MAN flights were from Air Atlanta to add insult to injury.

A couple of VS FEs became pilots, but not as a result of the scrapping of the Classic fleet. At the time, the company was shedding pilots as well, so there was no interest in training the FEs to change seats.

Quite a few of those FEs subsequently joined KA. As one of them mentioned to me, it was handy that the FE seniority list was on a separate page in the Ops Manual. To amend your copy, you simply had to tear the page out!

Currently one FE being retrained as pilot as we speak at CX. Good luck CB:ok:

"Could some of the CNs inform us of how many years it took to command in this company?"

Joined '79
Checked out (1st attempt!) early'87
'bout 7.5yrs

MEL