Logging RQ Time
Hello All
Quick question about logging RQ time in the CAD logbook when sitting with P2X rated SO. What do you log it as... P1-you're not exactly P1 are you? p1 u/s - you're not exactly under supervision then are you? p2 - you're not exactly p2 as you'd be PF when with the SO. Any ideas? Cheers |
I know it's not correct in the eyes of the CAD but, IF THE CAPTAIN IS ASLEEP I AM P1, FULLSTOP! That's the way I log it. You have a P1 rating so why not?
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Hey Phil, next time you log P1 - ask yourself if you are signing the log book. If not, you are not P1. And believe it or not, when the captain is asleep he/she is still technically in command.
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I'm sorry to say that I think the answer is P1u/s. Of course you can't log the bunk time either but I'd keep in a separate column if I were you as most companies count it towards total hours.
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and on an augmented crew you do not get to log all the flight time either. 3 man crew you can log 66% of the total time. Captains get to log 100% though.
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Logging time
Vol 1 (4-1-1) says (and also backed up by the inside cover of the HKCAD log book):
If you're the captain, you log P1 for the entire sector time. If you're the FO, you log P1-ICUS when you are at the controls AND you are the PF. If you're the FO, you log P2 when you are at the controls AND you are the PM. SO's log P2X when they are at the controls (doesn't specify whether PM or PF). WP |
OK-but how can I be P1 ICUS when I'm sitting with the SO??
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Clear as mud I know................
I've bin told, after attempting to DEMUDIFY the Vol 1 and Logbook, that it's P2 if you are PNF. Relief or not........... But that was a while back and I can't remember who said it exacRy |
I guess that even if the CPT is asleep you are under his supervision.
I heard a story once of a CPT who would take his rest in the LHS, and make the SO do the radio from the jump seat as he stated that he didn't trust either of them! |
Vol 1?? That is just another example of Cathay muddying things up.
I like to use the windshield wiper analogy. The rules, as they are laid out, are like mud on a windscreen. It isn't easy to see through, but with some concentration you can peek through it. Cathay is like the windshield wiper; they come in and make a mess out of an already confusing situation. It is very simple. You are not "in charge" when the captain is sleeping. You are simply watching things. Time that the captain is sleeping, well, try to think of that time as if they are taking a really big ****t. You didn't log PIC when the captain went to take a ****t at your previous job, did you? :ugh::ugh: You are not the designated pilot in command, you are simply the next rung in the ladder, that is all. :hmm: |
Thats right, so next time you're thundering across those fark'n big hills on Y1, on a cold and dark ****ey night, while the skipper is tucked up warm and snuggly in bed, and the number two engine throws a blade though the side of the cabin and proceeds to try and shake itself off the wing...... while the cabin rapidly depressurizes ..... rather than reaching for your oxy mask and pushing the thrust up..... you can turn to the brand new S/O (no disrespect!) sitting next to you and say.... "well bloggs, you have the con, I'm off to the bathroom for a really big ****e, because I'M NOT IN CHARGE! " :}
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Why don't you just call or drop by CAD and ask them directly? Citing the example /logic above.
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buggaluggs, there is a reason you are not in command. Perhaps you should log 25% of the time you idiot.
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Jizz ... Yeah good point mate, must remember not to post after more than 3 beers!! :}
I'm not arguing that we should be logging P1, I agree that's not appropriate, however P1 U/S and P2 don't really fit either. Perhaps we're in need of a P1x ? Not that I lose sleep at night over it . |
if you're the one being woken-up in the bunk with a problem ==> P1
if you're waking someone up in the bunk with a problem ==> P1 u/s |
Not much help coming from the CAD...
I sent them an e-mail asking the question. They replied and said they'd get back to me. Weeks later I still had not received a reply. Sent them another e-mail to which I never recieved a relpy...... |
The F/O or RQ or RP when acting as PILOT FLYING can log P1 U/S for the time at the controls, so long as he does the Takeoff and Landing. Otherwise you log P2......... Simple.......... your sector............ log P1 U/S.............
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From Vol1:
... detailed in CAD 54, HKCAD Requirements ... (see below for link to CAD 54, Chapter 1 - General, Appendix C) ... nominated as the Commander of the flight can log the whole sector time as P1 or PIC b. The First Officer (FO), or Relief Qualified Pilot (RQ), or Relief Pilot (RP), when acting as Pilot Flying (PF), can log P1 (U/S) for the time spent at the flying controls as long as he/she accomplishes both the take-off and landing. Otherwise he/ she will log P2 c. If, for operational reasons, e.g. crosswind outside FO limits, it is not possible for the FO to accomplish either the take-off or the landing, he/she can still count the time at the flying controls as P1(U /S) hours d. The FO, when acting as Pilot Not Flying (PNF), can log P2 for the time spent at the flying controls. e. The Second Officer(cruise relief) can record P2X for time spent at the flight controls NOTE: Except for the Commander, time spent outside the control seat for rest purposes cannot be recorded as flight time Conclusion: No-one except designated commander can log bunk time. It does not say captain have to be in the bunk (or not) while you log PICUS. Reality: Many FOs log all flight time they are on board, even in the bunk. Possible the latter as PM time. Whether it counts towards duty time or overtime is a different issue, and should not be confused with logbook time. It should be quite easy to spot as no pilot should ever have a logboog entry (as FO) of more than 12 hours. See also CAD 54, page 45-50 (Part 1, Appendix C) Clear as mud! |
Time on Task
It should be quite easy to spot as no pilot should ever have a logboog entry (as FO) of more than 12 hours. |
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