Hong Kong: Why do we live here?
 

I look out my window in Mid-Levels and it's what...6000m in pollution. Noxious coal dust toxic emissions. What is it doing to my child?

It has been like this for the past 5 years and getting worse every month. Its unrelenting.

Cathay and Dragon once paid OK wages but even if they counter the numbers now 'seeing the light' and leaving with a 60% payrise is all the money in the world worth this..........................



Copy from Reuters 29 Oct 2007:
Pollution blamed for China birth defects


Birth defects in Chinese infants have soared nearly 40 per cent since 2001, a government report said, and officials linked the rise to China's worsening environmental degradation.
The rate of defects had risen from 104.9 per 10,000 births in 2001, to 145.5 in 2006, affecting nearly one in 10 families, China's National Population and Family Planning Commission said in a report on its website (www.chinapop.gov.cn).
Infants with birth defects now accounted for "about 4 to 6 per cent of total births every year", the family planning agency said. Of these, 30 per cent would die and 40 per cent would be "disabled".
The World Health Organisation estimates about 3 to 5 per cent of children worldwide are born with birth defects.
China's coal-rich northern province of Shanxi, a centre of noxious emissions from large-scale coke and chemical industries, had the highest rate of defects, Xinhua news agency said in a report carried by the Beijing News.
"The incidence of birth defects is related to environmental pollution," the newspaper quoted An Huanxiao, director of Shanxi's provincial family planning agency, as saying.
"The survey's statistics show that birth defects in Shanxi's eight large coal-mining regions are far above the national average," An said.
The report said about 2 to 3 million babies are born in China with "visible defects" every year, and a further 8 to 12 million would develop defects within months or years after birth.
Officials had also linked high defect rates to poor, rural areas, and regions that suffered "high rates of illness".
About 460,000 Chinese die prematurely each year from breathing polluted air and drinking dirty water, according to a World Bank study.
The report comes as Beijing tries to improve air quality in time for the August 2008 Olympics, with high levels of small particulate matter - which are sometimes more than 200 per cent above recommended safe level - of particular concern.
China, home to some of the world's most polluted cities, has pledged to cut emissions and clean up its environment, laid waste after decades of breakneck development.
But lax local enforcement and an insatiable demand for energy to feed its booming economy continue to undermine environmental policy goals.
© 2007 Reuters, Click for Restrictions

How did you get such good vis?
 

6 km what a gem of a day . Sunday well that was another story, 2.5km in pure sh--t and it didn't smell much better either .
I must agree with you my departure from HK is no longer measured in years but months . All the money in the world will not prolong your life if you contract lung cancer . For the past 2 weeks every time I'm in HK I have a mildly sore throat not a great way to live

Simple: Leave.

Let me see:

• Working for less
• Working longer patterns
• Working with min crew on board
• 'Interesting' pollution levels for family to enjoy

And the list goes on.......

Not a difficult decision really.

Live to work don't work to live.

FACT: China currently burns 2500 tonnes of coal a MINUTE to power its cities...

This air quality problem is YEARS away from getting better and in all reality will probably get much worse..

At least the CX guys can escape it for about half of every month... For all the KA guys - well, your lungs are F#@&*d... Descending through that toxic transition layer 2 or 3 times a day into another city even more polluted than HKG just cant be good for you...

Gee Nancy, how long did you take to figure that one out :confused: I'm sure all the people here with 2 year leases, mortgages, kids in school etc will really appreciate that.

Visiting a friend in DB recently, there was a boat running in the bay, pushed up against the side of a barge ( christ only could guess why ) running for 10-12 hours a day, apparently for 2 weeks. The result, a nice bay with a nice layer of diesel all over it, just lovely.
These people have absolutely no :mad: idea, whatsoever.

For those of you who are toying with the idea of making the leap to Hong Kong. Please be advised that the air quality has deteriorated so extensively that an average of 300 days of the year now look like this! People surely have received danger pay for less. :eek:
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/e...ic10300011.jpg
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/e...ic10300021.jpg

Right click on applicable icon for photo

Then can someone explain how come hong kong has one of the longest life expectancy in the world???

I've been reading pprune and seeing so many ppl just bad-mouthing about hong kong to the rest of the world, just makes me feel sad.... guys, how would u feel if a bunch of ppl just constantly saying ur home town is a crap hole or a dump...let other ppl decide on where they wanna live rather than telling ppl not to come

Well I am going to tell you how to type, no text style please my friend.
ppl on this forum would mean PRIVATE PILOTS LICENCE. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:


I can not see the wrong in people telling others how bad the pollution is here in Hong Kong. At the end of the day they are only writing the truth.:D

Longest life expectancy my @$$ :ugh:

Proof positive of the propagandist poop fed by the government that they wish the HKG public would swallow en masse. Looks like they've already got one hooked.

So we may have the highest per capita number of centenarians. Here's the real kicker. That means they were born 100 years ago. That also means they didn't have to subject any major organs to the pea soup we have 2/3 of the year right now, for much of their lives. Not exactly rocket science. And neither are the statistics which point out the exponential rise in juvenile respiratory ailments in the last ten years.

The apathy the political leadership has for the status quo is, to say the least, a disgrace by any standard. Still though, I agree with the point made that people should come out here and see for themselves what a cesspool this place has become rather than have us tell potential newcomers about it. I mean, who are we to have an opinion about where we live? The nerve of some ppl...or people.

Real bright hyg, how about something recent.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2767159.ece

Yeah..that's what bow-tie Donald Duck chief executive would love you to believe..

But then the poor idiot only says what those "appaling old wax-works" in Beijing wants him to say...

Welcome to looney-tune land,where prices are high,visibility is poor and people are just miserable..(ever seen anyone smiling in the streets or MTR?):=

forgot CDG
 

hyg,
sorry that 'your town' is getting such a hammering over the pollution. Sitting here on Lantau Island and I can't see sh!t right now. As far as feeling sorry for yourself and HK, think about those other desirable city residences around the world:

- The Big Apple - 9/11, rubber gloves at airport security, Fox News and Mc Donalds
- Paris - rioting, strikes, girls can't wear a headscarf in school, randy prime-minister (no change there) and the dog-sh!t.
- London - 7/7, Ken Livingston, river thames flooding, fog, cold and rain
- Moscow - the local Mafia, some friedly people from Chechnya, cold and snow

Every city has it's downside, it's just that some of those things can be avoided and some are not present every day. BUT, the pollution in HK is here all the time, and when it does drop to low for about 3 days a year, that's still high on the EU's scale!

On the subject of longer lifespans in HKG, that data is based not on living people, but those who have passed away in recent years. If this data was produced say in the last 5 years, then those people who died at that time have not endured much of the massive increase in pollution that we have seen from 2000 to 2007.

If you were to look at this data in 10 years time I think you will see a distinct drop in the average lifespan. Let alone the effects of eating bok choi from a certain well known supermarket with 240 times the permitted level of certain pesticides, or that fish which was only meant to be used for industrial oil production, or the daily breakfast at Mc Donalds.

Again, so sorry for giving HK a hard time, but hey, open your eyes, read the newspaper, watch the news, get informed, get out of your small world, GET REAL!

Wishing you longevity,

N1 Vibes

these posts are scaring the **** out of me!! i spend most of my time in the wanna be section where most people are trying to get an edge on getting on with cx. i've wanted to work for cx for years now and finally have an interview in 2 weeks. i have a wife and a 14 month old son and are planning to have another child shortly...is it a mistake to live in hong kong!? is there an area that is better than others to live in if i decide to go? no offense but i want to get good info from people living there now and not from people that lived there 5 years ago or hate hong kong all together.

thanks!

Well I have been here 6 years with 2 small kids and I love Hong Kong, but I am looking to get back to Europe for my kids sake. The pollution is out of control the housing is expensive and the quality is bloody rubbish.

I have enjoyed my time in HK but working for CX is DIFFERENT. Given my time again I would have done BA or Virgin etc.


Overall, HK is great if your are single and want to travel but it's not a very child friendly place. CX are a bunch of wan7ers who want to chip away at our terms and conditions where the rest of the world are trying to improve them.


This is my honest opinion. Hope it helps.:ok:

thanks for the quick reply! it does help.

coming from canada it would be nice to hear from other canadians who have made the move. the ability to work for BA and other european carriers is not available to me and the canadian industry is special to say the least. any canadian perspectives out there?

According to a friend, in the mining industry here in China, the Chinese are building coal powered generating plants at a rate of the entire Australian power stations put together, every 5 months. These plants are the cheapest mass produced plants you can buy and have no filters . The cost of electricity would have to double if they wanted to get anywhere near world standards. So its only getting worse with no improvement expected in our life time.

Below is a picture of the Hong Kong skyline. See it?:8

The real answer is No!
You'll have some debate on this one but dead set...If the pollution in Tung Chung (read airport) is high/severe, Sai Kung, Central and DB will be within a couple of points! You can get more info from http://www.epd-asg.gov.hk/ but be aware the Low/High/Severe/Extreme categories have somewhat skewed limits compared to the real world. Read- your high would be a low here.

F Man out

Bluesidedown,
I also love Hong Kong as a city.. But the honest truth is that the air quality here is at levels that will cause you and your family long term ( and short term ) health problems..
The following is an article from 2005 and things have got a whole lot worse since then...
www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/13/bloomberg/sxpollute.php
Your second interview (i think - i'm with KA ) will be in Hong Kong so come and see for youself.. Take the time to go up to The Peak and see if you are lucky enough to see Kowloon across the harbour... Most days you either wont be able to or you'll see it through a thick haze..
Hong Kong is a tiny place and it doesn't matter where you live.. The whole of China is blanketed by this layer of filth.. Hong Kong is no exception..
As for me... I am planning my exit strategy... I will not be here in 6 months and the ONLY reason is the unseen damage that this air must be causing me is not worth any amount of $$$$$... I am here as a single guy... There is no way in hell i would expose small children with developing lungs to this..
PM me if you want and i'll email you photos of good days and bad days here.. Unfortunately the bad heavily out weigh the good and the good would be a disaster in your home country or mine..

Priceless Mr Bloggs.... :D

Right on!! :D:D:D:D

Blueside down,

Before I came here, I too had the **** scared out of me by these sorts of threads. But blindly we came anyway. I am now leaving and taking my family back home because of the pollution. It really is BAAAAAAAAAD. And with kids, your worry will be ceaseless.

I don't actually regret coming - the expats here have made it a fabulous stay for the number of years we have been here - great people, great barbecues, great nights out. It has been a great adventure and HK IS a great place to live when the skies are clear. But that is getting rarer and the pollution is getting thicker. I cannot subject my kids to ANY risk at all of health problems due to the industrial waste we are forced to breathe. ANY risk at ALL for my precious papooses is too high. And any effects are a long way off appearing, so as the guys above have said, statistics now are meaningless.

Just to add a tad more to the life expectancy debate. The figures are derived by actually looking at deaths across the whole population - so African nations with high infant mortality rates are obviously lower on the life expectancy scale. So if you had a population with 15 million centenarians, one would think life expectancy would be a nice high figure, but if that same place had a huge infant mortality rate then the life expectancy figure is obviously deceptively lower. Hong Kong's life expectancy figure is high because infant mortality is rare. But as said earlier, the real effects of this relatively new phenomena will not ramificate for years.

And it is two new coal fired power stations commissioned per week.

Mate, get your wife out here for a week in December/January, and then when you find you can barely see across the harbour through the filthy brown crap - THEN you can make an informed decision.

But me?? I'm gong home in 2 months.

UN agency declared that the pollution from Southern China will get up to 3 times as bad as it is presently.....before any improvements are noted. :\

Followed this thread with interest. I spent 14 years in HK, leaving in '99. I always remember the Novembers as having great wx, low humidity, great vis. and comfortable temperature.

I operated into HK 3 times last month (from Asia) each time it being poor vis. I was not aware that the pollution had become so bad. We were always concerned about pollution, but we preferred to live down town, rural living being an option. Now it seems you can't escape it. Thought I might go back to live one day, think I'll just nip back for a beer with old mates now.

Just hope it improves for you all.

DW

Here's the problem.

To the Chinese (especially HK Chinese)

Favourite sport - money
Favourite music - money
Favourite pass time - money
favourite tele show - money
preferred political system - money
favourite holiday - money
favourite religion - money
favourite conversation topic - money
favourite night out - money
favourite band - money
favourite actor - money
favourite clothes - money
favourite pets - money
favourite color - BROWN, because when the sky is brown, that means.................................you guessed it

Another News Article...
 

Zap! Pow! Batman hit by Hong Kong pollution

Hong Kong
November 4, 2007 - 5:42PM

Batman might cut a superhuman figure as he fights off evil-doers to save the world, but Hong Kong's polluted harbour is, apparently, one death-defying stunt too far.
Producers shooting the new Batman movie have been forced to cut one scene involving the caped crusader - played by Christian Bale - jumping out of a plane into the city's famed Victoria Harbour.
According to the South China Morning Post, producers felt the poor water quality was just too dangerous for the action hero when shooting for part of the film takes place there in the coming week.
Citing unidentified production sources, it said the stunt had now been taken off the shooting list for The Dark Knight, which co-stars Australian actor Heath Ledger as the Joker and Michael Caine as Batman's long-suffering butler, Alfred. Christopher Nolan returns to direct the sequel to the 2005 hit Batman Begins.
"There was supposed to be a scene where Batman jumps out of the back of a Hercules C-130 and into Victoria Harbour," one source was quoted as saying.
"The plan was for Batman to be seen jumping into the water and then climbing up some bamboo, or something similar, onto a pier.
"But when they checked a water sample, they found all sorts of things, salmonella and tuberculosis, so it was cancelled. Now the action will cut to inside a building," the source added.
A spokeswoman for October Pictures, the Hong Kong production company which is managing the shoot, would not comment on the report.
A spokeswoman for Hong Kong's Environmental Protection Department admitted that harbour water was not suitable for swimming due to untreated sewage, the newspaper said.
As well as poor water, Hong Kong also suffers from air pollution that on many days leaves the city clouded in haze, partly caused by local power plants and emissions from factories in the neighbouring Pearl River Delta region in southern China.
Hong Kong's harbour has long been polluted by industrial and residential sewage, and swimming is not recommended, said WWF's conservation director Andy Cornish.
"Even with the Batsuit on, swimming is not recommended. There is still a horrendous amount of effluent going into the harbour," he said.
The Warner Bros movie will be filmed in Hong Kong from November 6 to 12.
A major outdoor stunt is to be filmed at the International Finance Centre complex while the Peninsula Hotel will be used for other scenes.
Bale and his co-star Morgan Freeman will travel to Asia for the shoot, during which IMAX cameras will be used for the first time in Hong Kong.
Hong Kong's glass and steel skyscrapers, glistening blue harbour and authentic Chinese winding streets have proven a popular backdrop for many Hollywood movies including the James Bond hit Tomorrow Never Dies.
AFP

Throwadyce

Summed it up beautifully!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys have such short memories! Dont you remember the few clear days we had a couple of months ago? The HKG govt came out and said that they were due to their policies to reduce emmisions working? Obviously this stuff we see now is new polution from somewhere else! I cant believe the locals are so stupid and naieve that they actually swallow this $hit from the govt! (Pardon the pun). :ugh: Any western country would see rioting in the streets if they had to endure just 1 day like this! Dont people power and communism go hand in hand? :confused: Dont worry , I know the answer. $$$$$$

Ironic isnt it? A few people at the top making billions off the blood sweat tears and deformed babies of the masses. Slowly choking the workers that make this economic miracle possible, while the masses get nothing in return. Isnt that why they had a revolution in the first place? How is it any different this time? Not sure this is quite what Mao and the red army had in mind.

Lived there for four years. After two of my three young sons spent time in hospital casualty wards, breathing nebulised air we decided something had to be done. Having taken medical advice I resigned from my contract and we left the territory for good. Cost me an estimated £K100 but I know it was worth every penny.

It can't be that bad..
 

I have been an asthmatic since I was 7, so some 30+ years ago. I moved here in July and I now use fewer drugs than I did living in London. I can't give you scientific facts, just empirical data. The viz may be shiite, but it can't be all rubbish otherwise I'd be spending most days at the Matilda/Ruttonjee.:confused:

Ronair - if you were asthmatic since seven you would know that asthma often has nothing to do with pollution. It can be pollen, humidity, dust and any one of a 100 different things that bring on the allergies that eventually cause asthma. Only reason you feel better here is cause of change in environment - ie you moved away from whatever caused you to get sick. BUT don't worry buddy - if you live here long enough - with your already weaker lung system than most - the pollution will eventually make you sick. And just like a child with weak and sensitive lungs - you will in the end suffer more than most.

You of all people should know better......

missingblade - having lived with this for some time, think I know a little about it, so I don't need lecturing..All I am saying is that there are a lot of histrionics on this forum and I know you CX/KA guys need excuses to leave, but just admit you can't cut the mustard, I will be there to take yr place....:rolleyes:

Ronair, your asthma has probably improved due to the fact that there is no pollen in Hong Kong air.....'cos theres no f*cking plants!:}

Yo Ronnie. Your lungs are so f*^+ed up that it felt right at home when you moved to HK. That's why you feel just great!

Ron, with ridiculous comments like "can't cut the mustard....." You will fit in here just fine with your head in the sand with all the locals.

What Ron doesn't mention is that he is blind - well he must be to be insinuating pollution is not a problem here 'cause he obviously can't see it.

Dill

Agree about the terrible pollution but fact is that 74% of the Hong Kong countryside is green.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...h/PA060066.jpg
Tai Tam Country Park, 06/09/2007.

" Why do we live here ? "

Well, with the HKD following the USD like some sort of stalker sheep, and the aviation industry bleeding for pilots worldwide, it aint going to be the money for too much longer :D

Think you're being a tad disingenuous there Rev....I notice your photo doesn't show the blizzard like drifts of polystyrene boxes and plastic bags left by the locals on their days out, nor the barbie forks thrown everywhere by the barbies for your kid to get tetanus from, and is that mist or pollution in the sky?;)

Kitsune, you have obviously never walked your dog through the Tai Tam Country Park lately. There is not a shred of rubbish or barbecue forks to be seen anywhere and I have noticed the same cleanliness in other rural retreats like the Sai Kung Country Park. It all seemed to change after SARS hit the place.