Aren't you bored to death as SO?
 

I am to start with CX as SO, but also have the option to fly short sectors on a medium jet(A320) with loads of hands on time.(I have no jet experience)
My question is;
1)How do you cope for 4years as a SO? Aren't you bored to death, just watching the autopilot?
2)Doesn't it take all the fun out of flying?
3)Are there SO's that don't make the upgrade JFO/FO? Does that mean you would have spent 4years without having a rating in the end??
4)Would it be better to get some jet experience and then reapply as FO? Seems CX is going to start bringing FO's direct onto PAX fleet??
5)Is flying for CX as FO really worth 4 years wait?

Thanks

Regulator:uhoh:

Well,it really depends what you want.If you are into flying then it is npt a job for you.If you are into lifestyle and the flying is secondary,then go for it.I thonk being an SO is probably not great if you have no jet experience.I love my lifestyle at CX and i know it won't last that long so i enjoy every minute of it.But that's me...just my 2 cents.

I have the same question regarding JFO upgrade, what is the actual process?What are the obstacles if any?

Right attitude,personal track record within the company, having passed all check/training to an accepatble standard,passing a Type rating course in accordance with time allocated, within operating parameters of CX etc?What would happen in the unfortunate event that one does fail the upgrade?

Cheers
A330

It all depends on what you want out of life. a HKG based SO probably earns 2x that of a 320 driver, especially after 2 years when the housing doubles. Yes you can stay driving a 320 around for the rest of your life but if you want to be able to retire comfortably you need to get onto a widebody payscale and there arnt that many jobs out there that will hire you onto the right seat straight away.

"4 years as an SO", those days have passed, a chap i spoke to today is doing his in 3 years and it is only getting shorter. Now say you join CX at 30 and retire at 60.... it will be 60 by then or more likely 70.... then it means you give up 3 years of flying for 27 years of wide body FO/ CPTs pay.

As an SO you will have on average 15-20 days off a month. If you are so desperate to fly then go to Aus or somewhere and hire a lighty.

My time as an SO were awsome i travelled the world. set up investments, spent time with the wife and family we fishing played golf ....etc....work was a very secondary even tersary part of my life for 3 years and it was fantastic.

If this doesnt convince apeal dont bother coming, it make a long flight sitting next to a down and out SO, it makes a great trip when the guy is keen and making the most of the oppurtunities offered them.

What airlines precisely are you comparing to make this sweeping comparison between payscale.... And your predictions of being able to retire comfortably.

Have you genuinely looked at your employee contributed provident scheme to see what you could realistically expect to attain by retirement age be it 55 or 60... I assure you the prospects are not at all encouraging for a B Scaler....

Further have you seriously done your homework and compared your expected provident fund returns with other airlines such as QANTAS.... I am sure you will be struck dumbfounded at how poorly your retirement scheme is actually performing in comparison.

Bored?
 

Just to cut to the chase and answer the question. I can't possibly see how one could be bored as an S/O in Cathay Pacific.

I just got back from the beach in Phuket, my second trip to Thailand in the past nine months. Ad to that count six trips to Europe, one to Australia, two to mainland China.

Two weddings in Oz next month, snowboarding in Japan in December, diving in the Philippines in January.. and all this in my days between S/O duties.

Apply yourself for the sim checks, front up with a positive attitude, play down the suntan and all this could be yours for 3 or 4 years. I still have 25 years at Cathay, there is plenty of time for some window seat time.

Back to the pool..

Regards
Cronus

Typical month at CX for me as an SO is 3 trips which are almost always 4 day trips. Usually leave evening day one and returen morning day 4 so it's more like 2 full days and 2 half days away from home. So 3 times 4 equals 12 days of work, with the remained be G days or O days(of which I've never had to work on) so that leaves 18 days off. There is a Sim module every other month so subtract one day off every other month. If you have a block of reserve it is 6 days and usually takes the place of one trip. For me getting called on reserve is uaually 50/50 either not at all or called for a trip/crew up in the Sim. If you can manage to make smart requests you can get your sked with big blocks of days off to make like having a small amount of leave each month. Works for me!!!!!!
As far as getting bored I think it's more the people your sitting beside than the work it'self. Sitting beside the right person the time flys, sitting beside Mr. No personality 6 or 7 hours of starring at the PFD can drag on.
As with Cornus, traveled lots, done temp basing, and enjoyed evry min of it.

Maybe so, but have you heard what their career prospects are looking like? No promotions, salary freezes etc. All up career salary earnings are going to be a lot less. This isn't going to help their retirement schemes race up the charts.

Speaking to mates in QF they are going to need every single penny of their retirement funds just to fund buying a second hand caravan.

Give me CX anyday..

Now back to enjoying those 18 days off on the beach...;)

Good one Cronus
 

Dear Mr Rhodes,

I am appalled by your desire to intoduce a new lower payscale for DEFO's that requires more work for less pay and denegrates my career structure as an SO. Further, your inability to improve RP04, resulting in the rejection of RP07, your blatant disregard of any calls to engage in meaningful discussions concerning pay rises, has left me with no other alternative than to state;

"I just got back from the beach in Phuket, my second trip to Thailand in the past nine months. Ad to that count six trips to Europe, one to Australia, two to mainland China.

Two weddings in Oz next month, snowboarding in Japan in December, diving in the Philippines in January.. and all this in my days between S/O duties.

Apply yourself for the sim checks, front up with a positive attitude, play down the suntan and all this could be yours for 3 or 4 years. I still have 25 years at Cathay, there is plenty of time for some window seat time."

Back to the pool"

So, Mr Rhodes, when can I expect you to take the us pilots seriously?
Your ever obedient servant,
Cronus

PS Why do the rest of CX staff hate us pilots so???

Liam,

Ref your ps,

Oderint dum metuant.

Caligula

Moosp,

The only "fear", is the fear that we are becoming a joke......:rolleyes:

demonstrates what can happen when absolute power is combined with a total lack of responsibility and respect for others


http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_...caligula2a.jpg

Caligula

It was Nick Rhodes who told my course on induction day that we should make the most of the S/O time whilst we have it.

Everything I have done with regard to personal travel since I started at Cathay has been on my own time. I chose a lifestyle roster which affords me days off to travel. Why the smart ass remarks? Is it because I still derive some gratification from my job? And what do you think NR or the CX board for that matter use PPRuNe as some kind of barometer for prevailing opinion and morale at Cathay?

I can't wait to upgrade but whilst I'm waiting, I'll enjoy my days off. Perhaps you should do the same...

Yes, if you are an experienced pilot you will get bored as an SO. It is part of the compromise of CX.

Every couple of months you should spend the money and go and fly a real aeroplane for an hour. It reminds you that you can still do that Pilot Sh**, which is very good for your self esteem.

If you arrive single to HKG as an SO it is like being put out to stud for three years. If you arrive with a partner it is the best chance you will ever have of travelling with them in a fascinating part of the world that will leave you both with wonderful lifetime memories. Those that spend all their time off going back to their home country are missing the point of coming to HKG in the first place.

Most SOs I talk to are itching to get back in the right seat, but they know that their present time off is a rare gift in the business world, and make the most of it.

Oh, and Caligula looks to have had a nose job, by an enemy. Or did the sculptor dare to add his syphilitic nose? He is I believe the Patron Saint of failed MBAs.

FWIW

Don't even pay attention to idiots like Liam Gallagher, they have no friends and lead a dull and boring life, so when they hear of a junior crew making most of their time off, they become envious and jealous. ;)

Dragon69,

If you haven't got a sense of humour I think you're right!

"they have no friends and lead a dull and boring life"

On the other hand Liam might well be taking the p**s!:}

Bored of course.
 

Of course you are bored as an S/O, there's nothing to the job that a 200hr cadet pilot can't do, but it all boils down to an attitude. If work is your only focus in life you will quickly get frustrated. But if you look at what you get in return it is pretty sweet. I spend more time with my family than anybody other father I know (back home). You have so much time to do and see so many things it's staggering.
If you ever need a reality check, go home and compare your job with someone who works 9 to 5. I was almost embarrased to tell them. Lets face it, its money for jam. Compared to what I was doing it's 3 years of semi-retirement.

Interesting to see your different views on being a SO for CX. Question; Can you actually live this "sweet" life in Hong Kong on the SO pay???? What is a normal take home for a SO?
/CP

in short yes.

captain prop
Depends! Salary is about $35K HKD a month in year 1 rising to I think about $49K a month in year 4...I am sure an SO will correct me if I am wrong.
If you have no kids then it is money for jam. If you have kid/s but not yet at school, you will still be ok but probably not save much/anything. If you have school age kids then there is a reasonable chance of you going backwards financially till you get upgraded. You get half the housing allowance for first 2 years...some friends of mine just joined and they found a nice 1300' place in DB and they have a 1 year old child.

Like many others have said...if you focus on the 'not flying' side of being an SO it will be a painful 3-4years. If you focus on the lifestyle side of the job you will have a ball. I have only ever had one unhappy SO...and that was because he was on his umpteenth flight to/from Oz on the 330 which are pretty much the worst trips for an SO.
cheers

Can't Agree More.

oz trips
 

Why is oz considered to be the worst trip for an SO to get?? (or did I miss the irony)

Well I judge the Captains will not be too troubled by burning out the S/O’s with all that time off to recover. Give some much needed rest for the Capt and F/O with not so much time off.

The S/O’s can recover surfing in Bali.

Number Cruncher, I assume you do this now?

No I don't mr bloggs...and it is numero crunchero now...I am in disguise!!! I have heard of some pretty interesting ideas on breaking up the rest periods. I still work on the same principles...your sector, you choose the rest and the meal. At the bar I get the good looking one and you don't;-)
I never liked having my rest dicked around when I was in the other seat and so far I ahven't dicked anyone around...but still got a few more years to earn the nickname "captain pajamas"

Youll be right son...the oz trips are perceived to be about the worst trips, especially for SOs, as it is 3man with all night flying. You do get a seat(business mostly but sometimes in first) to try and get some sleep on your 2hrs 30min off...that is if you can sleep during meal service!. SOs normally get first rest which is a bit early to be tired...so yeah, petty mundane and tiring.

What's the average age of CX SO's? Is it rare for a fresh 30'er to join an SO function? I think at KLM the average SO age is at around 23, which is very young.

Cheers! :)

From my time as an SO the worst trip was Auckland, 3 crew upto 1130 flight time through the night, with Cabin crew whom just have not learnt how to close the flight deck door quietly, therefore ensuring no sleep.

I remember one !@#@!!@ austrailian cpt... he would sh@ft the SOs even when it was a day flight for him, i always put it down to the fact he was not as capable as the rest of the cpts at CX and therefore needed everything going for him.

But dont be put off as you fly with guys like that once every 6 months and the have to live with themselves permanently. and as stated theres always the 8-10 days off to recover, now im an FO i have lost my tan and forgot what sand feels like.

Just a bit more to add. I dont know if my bloggs has flown with me or is just taking the p*ss. I think my handle is pretty well known even thought slighlty altered from CPRUNE days. Please anyone speak up if you think I gave you unfair rest.
I still work on the princilple of rest period divided by number of crew...I find it strange that some of my more senior colleagues seem it is somehow fair that an So should have the first hour off and then the last on the way to oz...still, hitler thought mentally handicapped and jews should be exterminated so you are all entitled to your own WRONG opinions.
Whether I have 3 hrs off or 2 hrs 30min I still feel like S*it...so cant see the point of being difficult.

So flying kiwi...I assume you are relief FO by now. Can I suggest a 'passive aggressive approach' I had to use once. I was rostered to fly with a notoriously bad captain(rest wise)...and I was the next most senior...ie relief commander. He told me what rest he wanted to do which was unexpected and unprepared for. I told him fine...but I said I may have to wake him in 2 or 3 hrs cause I hadn't been prepared or warned and so I would do just do my best to stay awake. There are certain advantages to being a rude australian;-)
And of course if you are offered another flight level whilst he is asleep....that is a big decision to make be yourself...I would wake him to decide. By the way, if you ever do that with me I will never buy you a beer!

Ha ha i like it.

Hey SO' im not sure whether to go left or right around the wx ahead, i think we better ask the Cpt, hes only on a leg strech anyway..

Ill try not to do it to you,,, beers brought by Cpts always taste better especially when its due to their landing...

I undestand that the best can be made when SOs enjoy their time and seek activiities and life in HK, fair enough.

How about in the case when a SO need to visit family frequently back home (i.e. North America, Austrialia OR UK), is it possible? does the schedule actually allow this via jump seating every chance you get ?

If anyone can shed some light on this that would be much appreciated

thanks!
E

If given a choice take a job on the 744, 3 trips s a month works out to 15-18 days off per month.
Commuting is not a problem, paying all the fuel surcharge to fly on staff tickets is the only major pain in the ass, but their are ways around that.

Quick question regarding rest breaks on Long Haul Flights with CX. Are the rest breaks divided equally amongst the pilots? Or am I to understand from some of the comments here the SO's get flogged in the cruise?

Thanks

How do the travel benefits work for CX new hires? I've heard that there are essentially no benefits your first six months, or that they'll only pay for travel to your home base until your first year is up, or that your travel use is limited until you become an F/O. Looking at the stories posted here by S/Os though, that doesn't seem to be the case. I know CX doesn't do "non-revenue space available" like a lot of airlines, but I don't have a real understanding of the system they do use. Would anybody here care to give us the real situation? If travel is actually that restrictive, then S/O life really could be brutal...

First six months: only travel to your home port is allowed (you will designate one on the 2nd interview I believe).

After that: you can buy ID90s anywhere CX/OneWorld flies.

After 1 year: you can buy ID90s on everybody else.

ID90s is expensive buddy! Cathay charges for the ever increasing "fuel surcharge" to staff as well as the passenger. This tax plus airport taxes will almost double the price of the discounted ticket that Cathay sells you.

To put things in perspective; you will be about 500USD poorer if you were to buy a ZED/ID90 to go from Hong Kong to Vancouver and Back on Bidnid class.

There is "jumpeating" on Cathay only. But this is not free, you will still be charged with the ID90, all it means is you may occupy the jumpseat if the flight is full. You'll get to where you want to go, but it is a worse deal since you're still out 500 bucks US only you get to sit on a Flight Attendant jumpseat for 14 hours (YVR-HKG for example).

You can only print out these ID90 tickets in Hong Kong. So if you're in Vancouver skiing and lost your belongings and tickets stolen, you are out of luck! However, with that in mind you are allowed to print as many as you want and they are good for 6 months. You won't be charged until the ticket is used.

You must have ID90s for Business class to be able to sit in Business Class (costs more). Cathay will not allow any employees to upgrade for free. I have been on flights where there are over 40 open seats in Business and I had to ride in Economy. Cathay is not your average N. American carrier where employees look out for each other. (They can't, 'cause they'll be canned if they did)

When I went to the 2nd interview I asked the lady at check in 3 questions and they went like this:

Can I be upgraded: "no"

Can I get an emergency exit seat: "no"

Can I get a aisle seat: "no"

Expect some of the same treatment when you staff travel on CX as employee.

As a Second Officer, I believe you will be "level c" employee? (correct me if I'm wrong) Therefore you are NOT ALLOWED to ride First Class. Only people after 7 years with the company or managers can. Yes, they like to put you down. Yikes!!

When I went to the 2nd interview I asked the lady at check in 3 questions and they went like this:

Can I be upgraded: "no"

This is where the CX agent really screwed up. She should have telexed Hong Kong informing them that one of their candidates was asking to be upgraded and was generally quite rude. This would have red-flagged you and saved both parties all sorts of grief.

Very true,

My entire time in Cathay Pacific, I felt like I had done something really bad to deserve to work there.

Where did I say that I was rude? It is common practice to ask for upgrade when you are an airline employee traveling on a staff pass. I have been flown to interviews on First Class before with the US carriers, why is it that Cathay has to be so different?

If you suggest that someone asking for an upgrade should not be hired then you have confirmed what I have been telling people about the culture at Cathay. Thanks.

Penske's comment sounded like exasperated sarcasm to me...

The deal for travel benefits isn't as good as it used to be in the U.S.. The 500USD bill for a HKG-YVR round trip in Biz class would run close to 400USD under UAL's new setup. And I know AA doesn't allow upgrades to First under normal circumstances. CX's deal doesn't sound too sweet, but it's sadly looking better due to lowered standards.
I think you're right about the Level C employee thing. I was under the impression that Captains were the only ones who got to sit First Class.

Has it gone down hill over here too? Sorry I've been gone for a few years. :eek:

It's the same everywhere - the employees are the enemy, especially the pilots. They've pretty much run out of stuff to take away (pension, medical), so now they've started taking away benefits that essentially cost the company nothing. If UA thinks they can gouge you for a few extra bucks, they'll do it. It still doesn't sound as restrictive or expensive as the CX setup, though

Seems to me that a smart company would expand travel and related bennies as they scroll back pay, etc. as a means of maintaining some degree of positive morale...

United's travel benefit back in the day were incredible! It will get back to where it should be once the dust settles. It has too!

Keep the faith.