When is the *$%&#@ ban going to be over??!!
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When is the *$%&#@ ban going to be over??!!
Alright
At the risk of stating the obvious it's coming up a year and a half now, and it sure looks from where I sit as though the ban has achieved exactly 0.01% of jack s**t.
I've heard all the arguments for and against and I've long ago made my own mind up, and no I'm not applying while this thing is going on so there's no need for anybody to launch into an enormous great flame war, all I want is a straight answer, preferably in terms of days weeks months or years, as to when I might be able to submit my CV to Cathay without damning my soul to trade union hell forever.
At the risk of stating the obvious it's coming up a year and a half now, and it sure looks from where I sit as though the ban has achieved exactly 0.01% of jack s**t.
I've heard all the arguments for and against and I've long ago made my own mind up, and no I'm not applying while this thing is going on so there's no need for anybody to launch into an enormous great flame war, all I want is a straight answer, preferably in terms of days weeks months or years, as to when I might be able to submit my CV to Cathay without damning my soul to trade union hell forever.
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You must be the only one ....
I ignored the pathetic ban as have 100 plus others. IFALPA and the AOA are just plain wrong !
Don't stuff up your life for the selfish interests of some spoiled and over indulged A scalers ! Get on the seniority list now as you will be here loooooonnnnngggggg after they have left ...
You've worked for it, so take it !
Good Luck !!!
Join Date: May 2002
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The best part about this thing is if any one of those AOA whiners gives you any grief all you have to do is mention harassment to a manager and the next thing you know, a Captain becomes an FO or an FO gets sacked or whatever. It's amazing how much management hates those AOA guys.
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Not to take sides on this great flame war, Yes I want in to Cathay as well, no I haven't applied... (too far down the food chain for that!)
but ain't that the sought of thing that the AOA want to try and get rid of, the fact that you can be terminated 'just like that'?
I mean if it's that easy to get rid of employees by the mention of harrassment, wouldn't that mean that the same thing could easily happen to YOU?
Granted the way they went about protesting the point suxs....
but ain't that the sought of thing that the AOA want to try and get rid of, the fact that you can be terminated 'just like that'?
I mean if it's that easy to get rid of employees by the mention of harrassment, wouldn't that mean that the same thing could easily happen to YOU?
Granted the way they went about protesting the point suxs....
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but ain't that the sought of thing that the AOA want to try and get rid of, the fact that you can be terminated 'just like that'?
Hmmm... makes you wonder how they remembered all those names...
Join Date: May 2000
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Cypher,
Thats the way things are these days. Industrial protection is very limited, even in Aus. Why do you think that there are more and more casual and contract jobs these days. One reason, so that employers can get rid of employees easily and they have no recourse.
The only way you can provide employees with some sort of protection is to have a strong and united union/association or whatever else you want to call it. Unfortunately this wont be the case with the AOA as their membership is diluted with each new joiner and with each exisiting member that pulls out of the association.
IMHO I think it is time for the AOA to drop the ban and allow all to rejoin/join and develop a new course of action and do it as a united group.
BTW I am not a CX employee and I do believe that the company could have handled the situation in a better way than they did with the 49ers.
Thats the way things are these days. Industrial protection is very limited, even in Aus. Why do you think that there are more and more casual and contract jobs these days. One reason, so that employers can get rid of employees easily and they have no recourse.
The only way you can provide employees with some sort of protection is to have a strong and united union/association or whatever else you want to call it. Unfortunately this wont be the case with the AOA as their membership is diluted with each new joiner and with each exisiting member that pulls out of the association.
IMHO I think it is time for the AOA to drop the ban and allow all to rejoin/join and develop a new course of action and do it as a united group.
BTW I am not a CX employee and I do believe that the company could have handled the situation in a better way than they did with the 49ers.
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What anyone joining as an expat in any Airline whether it be Cathay SIA Gulf Air Emirates etc etc needs to understand very clearly indeed is that anyone can be terminated at just 3 months notice and no reason has to given, so think very carefully if leaving a country where you have some employment protection,cos there is none anywhere in the expat world.
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The Gypsy,
Do you really want to have the words Job Protection and Airline in the same sentence??
The way things are these days, being terminated on 3 months notice is the least of our worries.
18 months ago we saw how quickly things changed in the airline biz and we all remember how many airlines folded leaving thousands of airline employees out of work.
Job protection you say??? Not in aviation.
Do you really want to have the words Job Protection and Airline in the same sentence??
The way things are these days, being terminated on 3 months notice is the least of our worries.
18 months ago we saw how quickly things changed in the airline biz and we all remember how many airlines folded leaving thousands of airline employees out of work.
Job protection you say??? Not in aviation.
Join Date: May 2002
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I think if a study of the statistics was done it would emerge that over the past eighteen months more people have been laid-off whilst employed on their own home turf than those in the expatriate world.
It could be argued that the expatriate world, even with it's contract terms, is more secure than staying at home!
It could be argued that the expatriate world, even with it's contract terms, is more secure than staying at home!
Join Date: May 2002
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That's the zillion dollar question. They are hoping to have labour laws of the expatriates home countries to be deemed relevant in their (the expats) place of work ie Hong Kong. Most of the cases are still stalled around the vexing issue of jurisdiction. The AOA's position is that the 49ers were fired for industrial reasons and therefore their terminations were unreasonable. The company stands on the labour laws of Hong Kong and their contracts with their workers which (in Hong Kong) legally allows them to terminate workers on three months notice or with payment in lieu of notice for no reason. Going to line the pockets of more blood sucking low life lawyers and not achieve much else. Whatever the outcomes the company will not take back any of the 49ers now. Should the AOA win the case/s, for the rest of us at CX it will probably mean a new batch of contracts much more tightly written and not so generous as at present. Everybody will lose from this sorry fiasco.
Shortly, Once again I cannot agree with your comments. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that when treated unfairly (and possibly illegally)you should immediately give in as otherwise you will be given a new contract that will make the unfairness (and any illegality) fair so there is no point ever complaining. Of course Hitler changed the laws but despite that people fought for justice!
Lets just wait and see what is declared legal and fair, not forgetting of course that one judge has declared previously that a contract was binding in honour only. At least I can look at myself in the mirror and tell my children what is right and honest.
Lets just wait and see what is declared legal and fair, not forgetting of course that one judge has declared previously that a contract was binding in honour only. At least I can look at myself in the mirror and tell my children what is right and honest.
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Busy B, I am glad you can look in the mirror. Don't quite follow you though, bit of a circular argument. We are employed from Hong Kong by a Hong Kong company and therefore subject to the laws of Hong Kong - whether we like them or not. I cannot see the rationale in the hope that this company will cave because some Judge somewhere thinks the company has been unreasonable. The dispute should have ended an aeon ago, before the 49er situation occurred. Scargill remember? We all knew the rules, including the three month one. The AOA was prepared to gamble by upping the ante and this situation is the predictable result. There are lots of unreasonable labour laws both here and OS. In a more democratic environment we would hope the pollies would become involved and fix the situation - I don't think lol. But back to the ban, hasn't worked, won't work and is only weakening an already weak AOA position. Looked like a stupid idea, has proven to be a stupid idea, ergo was a stupid idea. All courses full till late next year, company rolling in dosh, loads great and OTP on the ball. The company will keep procrastinating on the court cases until they are even less relevant than they are now. A possible scenario, the company settles out of court if they think they are losing. Then they tighten up their somewhat lose contracts with us and all in their favour. Most will sign and the company will keep making great profits. The 49ers won't come home and the AOA will be a weaker force than it ever has been before. Some strategy.
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I don't think the AOA has the slightest idea of when the stupid and ineffective employment ban, or the subs at 4% will end.
Their only hope is with the court cases. Which I think the AOA will lose - the company has better lawyers.
The AOA don't have (and never had) the strength to undertake effective industrial action.
For whatever reason they failed to reach a negotiated settlement (I think due to greed and ego on the part of the AOA).
So it is a legal victory or total failure.
My advice re the ban: Take the job.
About job security: Do your best to make your airline the best. Without pax handing over the $, the share holders don't get their returns and sooner or later the company will restructure (with cuts) or fail. At the end of the day the business must make $. Turnball and co have been very good at this, therefore my job at CX is safe. It is only the AOA who are putting it at risk.
Their only hope is with the court cases. Which I think the AOA will lose - the company has better lawyers.
The AOA don't have (and never had) the strength to undertake effective industrial action.
For whatever reason they failed to reach a negotiated settlement (I think due to greed and ego on the part of the AOA).
So it is a legal victory or total failure.
My advice re the ban: Take the job.
About job security: Do your best to make your airline the best. Without pax handing over the $, the share holders don't get their returns and sooner or later the company will restructure (with cuts) or fail. At the end of the day the business must make $. Turnball and co have been very good at this, therefore my job at CX is safe. It is only the AOA who are putting it at risk.
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The only effect the ban is achieving, is the continuing unemployment of the 49'ers.
Maybe a secondary effect is the
slow destruction of the AOA.
I know this sounds like the worst doomsday scenario, but it's true.
There have been too many ex Ansett pilots up for interview,
most of them already BLACK BANNED by IFALPA from 1989.
The ban will not stop recruitment, it only stops any
chance of a settlement. The court cases may give some of the
49'ers some compensation, but nothing else. A court victory will
not change a single aspect of contract or labour laws anywhere.
The court cases MAY possibly give SOME individuals a form of compensation.
The overall situation will not change unless a
properly negotiated settlement occurs. The AOA dream of a
legally imposed settlement is just that.
When the AOA finally expires, I would like to suggest a new
association called the AOB be formed. The letters would stand
for Aircrew Officer's Brotherhood. Later, the AOC, AOD etc. make
up your own names.
The truth hurts, but needs to be grasped.
Maybe a secondary effect is the
slow destruction of the AOA.
I know this sounds like the worst doomsday scenario, but it's true.
There have been too many ex Ansett pilots up for interview,
most of them already BLACK BANNED by IFALPA from 1989.
The ban will not stop recruitment, it only stops any
chance of a settlement. The court cases may give some of the
49'ers some compensation, but nothing else. A court victory will
not change a single aspect of contract or labour laws anywhere.
The court cases MAY possibly give SOME individuals a form of compensation.
The overall situation will not change unless a
properly negotiated settlement occurs. The AOA dream of a
legally imposed settlement is just that.
When the AOA finally expires, I would like to suggest a new
association called the AOB be formed. The letters would stand
for Aircrew Officer's Brotherhood. Later, the AOC, AOD etc. make
up your own names.
The truth hurts, but needs to be grasped.
Join Date: Jul 1998
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Why would anybody want to join an airline where the management treats their pilots like crap, & that means ALL pilots, whether you be A scale, B scale, new joiner, whoever. These managers will do to you as they have done to others. It's just a matter of time.
Don't join now & then come bleating when they try it on you a bit later, because it WILL happen.
We're trying to get this fixed for everyone. That means those here now & those in the future.
You think we're going through this for the fun of it ?
Don't join now & then come bleating when they try it on you a bit later, because it WILL happen.
We're trying to get this fixed for everyone. That means those here now & those in the future.
You think we're going through this for the fun of it ?