Captain earning potential
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 76
Likes: 66
From: Hong Kong
Also, total remuneration and earnings mean different things to different people. From CX POV, that is what it is costing them - so will include provident fund payments, housing and education reimbursements or allowance, the kitchen sink
Most people don’t this as ‘earnings’ which they tend to see as ‘pay’ So it can both be right that it costs CX >3m to employ 400 crew, but those crew don’t see themselves as being paid 3m.
Most people don’t this as ‘earnings’ which they tend to see as ‘pay’ So it can both be right that it costs CX >3m to employ 400 crew, but those crew don’t see themselves as being paid 3m.
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 149
Likes: 20
From: HK
While you are at it find out
Why is there air
How long is a piece of string
Why does a dog lick his skro tum
Why is a circle round and a square is not
Good to see there are still people in the industry who like yourself like yourself who focus on the key issue and whats of real interest to the industry
Why is there air
How long is a piece of string
Why does a dog lick his skro tum
Why is a circle round and a square is not
Good to see there are still people in the industry who like yourself like yourself who focus on the key issue and whats of real interest to the industry
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 149
Likes: 20
From: HK
Looking at the chart a Cathay captain "tops out" at let's say 4M HKD which is what the top 100 or so captains are earning, 3 times that is ~1.5M USD. You were able to walk into a job that pays that on day 1 on leaving CX?
I'm guessing OP does not have job offers from companies paying him ~1.5m USD per year hence this post.
I'm guessing OP does not have job offers from companies paying him ~1.5m USD per year hence this post.
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 95
Likes: 19
From: On a few nerves apparently
But demanding not to have exposed the dire desperation required to seek and keep employment with Cathay pacific is indeed childish and laughable. Entertaining to some degree indeed.
One cannot help but to keep airing the truth. Those who face a decision to make regarding the matter do indded deserve our honesty, however embarrassing it might be. Anything else would simply not be proper.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 223
Likes: 66
The sad thing is that at one time CX was considered to be the BEST career in the airline industry. It is tragic that their management has destroyed that legacy, and it is now considered a joke, and ultimately a much diminished entity. They once had the most experienced and loyal Flight Crew. Now, they have allowed the operation to be perilously degraded. The airline my look the same to the passenger, but in reality the core substance of the airline has been sadly and dangerously diminished.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: Hong kong
I find it rather sad that a couple of recent ex Cathay posters who left the airline some years back clearly have nothing better to do with their time than to continue posting vindictive and twisted half truths re CX and its management.
Your the game is long lost chaps, the airline has moved on, survived and has prospered. Time perhaps for you to also move on also .
Your the game is long lost chaps, the airline has moved on, survived and has prospered. Time perhaps for you to also move on also .
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 223
Likes: 66
Prospered....? CX prospered in the 80's and 90's (Airline of the Year etc, etc..). Since then, a sad decline, which was triggered by their managements deranged attacks on their own aircrew, who built the reputation of the company over decades of loyal, dedicated service. Now, it's a shell of its former self....nothing more than a similar paint scheme and a fading legacy.
You say that certain "ex CX posters" are guilty of posting "vindictive and twisted half truths"...? I say that my comments and many like mine are the whole truth. In fact, I stopped my son from applying, and he is now happily employed by a major US carrier. I'd rather him be enjoying that than knowing he was sucked into the most toxic management environment that aviation has ever produced, in league with a labour situation in HK that leaves the employee with literally no protections. And I say that based on over 30 years experience.
If I can help deflect one single pilot and their family from becoming entangled with what is a known career travesty, then I will happily own that. To suggest that CX is anything else than a desperate gamble on a professional and personal level is futile. Any current CX management can attempt to discredit and castigate. The truth however is evident for all to see in the past 30+ years of decline and collapse of the "career" of the job of Pilot in Cathay Pacific.
You say that certain "ex CX posters" are guilty of posting "vindictive and twisted half truths"...? I say that my comments and many like mine are the whole truth. In fact, I stopped my son from applying, and he is now happily employed by a major US carrier. I'd rather him be enjoying that than knowing he was sucked into the most toxic management environment that aviation has ever produced, in league with a labour situation in HK that leaves the employee with literally no protections. And I say that based on over 30 years experience.
If I can help deflect one single pilot and their family from becoming entangled with what is a known career travesty, then I will happily own that. To suggest that CX is anything else than a desperate gamble on a professional and personal level is futile. Any current CX management can attempt to discredit and castigate. The truth however is evident for all to see in the past 30+ years of decline and collapse of the "career" of the job of Pilot in Cathay Pacific.
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 95
Likes: 19
From: On a few nerves apparently
The bottom line is, the cathay pilot job is firmly and permanently in the "temporary job" category now. If you wish to have a temporary job, then perhaps you might find some value in accepting employment with Cathay with a firm plan to leave cathay for a career job asap.
It is not a "career job".
If you expect it to be a creer job, you will be badly disappointed, years from now and will be scrambling to secure new employment elsewhere and start at the bottom once again. Remember, career progression at career jobs are all firmly based on seniority first, with other requirements considered after. Temporary jobs are not. Cathay has officially announced to its pilots that progression will no longer be based on seniority, since a couple of years ago. Not even lip service when it comes to longevity and seniority anymore.
Know what you're faced with and decide accordingly.
However even this comes with its own risks. 25 years ago I took an airline pilot job entirely considering it as a temporary job with a plan to use it as a stepping stone for a much better job. My plan was to leave in one year. Circumstances caused a severe downturn in the airline industry and I got stuck at that rubbish job for 8 years. So beware. If you're with cathay and they gut your pay and compensation package (as they did a few years ago), you're financial situation will be in dire straits and you may very well collapse in time under the costs of living in Hong Kong.
Also, to say that those of us who have left don't know how it is now etc... is very disengenious. We all have many dear friends on various nationalities still at cathay. Dear friends we will never lose touch with. Rest assured we hear every little detail of exactly how it is there on a regular basis. What we are saying, our reflections of cathay, are widely shared among those who are still stuck there and would escape to a better job immediately if they could.
It is not a "career job".
If you expect it to be a creer job, you will be badly disappointed, years from now and will be scrambling to secure new employment elsewhere and start at the bottom once again. Remember, career progression at career jobs are all firmly based on seniority first, with other requirements considered after. Temporary jobs are not. Cathay has officially announced to its pilots that progression will no longer be based on seniority, since a couple of years ago. Not even lip service when it comes to longevity and seniority anymore.
Know what you're faced with and decide accordingly.
However even this comes with its own risks. 25 years ago I took an airline pilot job entirely considering it as a temporary job with a plan to use it as a stepping stone for a much better job. My plan was to leave in one year. Circumstances caused a severe downturn in the airline industry and I got stuck at that rubbish job for 8 years. So beware. If you're with cathay and they gut your pay and compensation package (as they did a few years ago), you're financial situation will be in dire straits and you may very well collapse in time under the costs of living in Hong Kong.
Also, to say that those of us who have left don't know how it is now etc... is very disengenious. We all have many dear friends on various nationalities still at cathay. Dear friends we will never lose touch with. Rest assured we hear every little detail of exactly how it is there on a regular basis. What we are saying, our reflections of cathay, are widely shared among those who are still stuck there and would escape to a better job immediately if they could.
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 86
Likes: 64
From: Skokie, Ill
Mates of mine still at Cathay are only there because (1) too old to start over, (2) spouse has high paying job, (3) kids finishing up school, or (4) wrong passport. A few are probably too scared to start over (sunken cost fallacy).
NO ONE has stayed because it’s a good gig, because it sure isn’t. The fact your pilot recruitment team has to run roadshows around the world speaks volumes. Wasn’t necessary before.
NO ONE has stayed because it’s a good gig, because it sure isn’t. The fact your pilot recruitment team has to run roadshows around the world speaks volumes. Wasn’t necessary before.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 657
Likes: 47
From: Asia
“(4) wrong passport” - a cheap excuse
Several CX pilots have successfully migrated to the US - the Middle East is also available to anyone.
There is always the U.K. and most Saffas have access to Europe via their ancestors.
Nobody is stuck in HKG unless they choose to be stuck.
Several CX pilots have successfully migrated to the US - the Middle East is also available to anyone.
There is always the U.K. and most Saffas have access to Europe via their ancestors.
Nobody is stuck in HKG unless they choose to be stuck.
Last edited by AQIS Boigu; 15th July 2025 at 14:41.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 405
Likes: 3
From: The Cesspit
When contracts were on chopping blocks in US after 9/11, companies had to file for bankruptcy, go to court, show cause for any and all cuts and open their books for a bankruptcy judge to decide and approve everything.
In Hong Kong nothing at all was required to be shown to anyone and it was perfectly legal to rip up an employment contract summarily. All that was needed for this to happen was an extremely unscrupulous employer to decide to do it.
In Hong Kong, it was proven that a contract you sign with an employer (cathay pacific) isn't worth the toilet paper it is signed on. Proven via legal precedence.
This was not what cathay pacific implied up to that point at all. During the interview process the interviewers showed us selected sections of "the contract" including the pay scales making a strong point doing the math about how much you will earn if you spend 10, 20 etc years on that payscale, among a few other strong point in there. Pay, Career progression, last in first out protection etc were harped upon. A very strong effort was put in to make the point how strong and enforceable of a contract it was. All proven to be lies. The outrageous thing is that after all that, cathay pacific is still lying outright about what a new prospect can expect from working at cathay. As if anything cathay pacific says, even if written in an employment document has any chance of being anything other than a lie. You can clearly see this from the type of questions being asked by people considering working for cathay. That they can have any expectations of pay, progression, equipment assigned, job security etc. They wouldn't be asking these questions if they weren't being lied to by cathay pacific. If you too lie to them when they ask for your help... shame on you.
Let them make their decisions with open eyes, with truth in hand.
Don't try to glorify or normalize the utterly sh!t situation you're in regarding your employer to make yourself feel better.
Even if cathay pacific is forced to put everyone back on pre covid contracts, nobody in the right state of mind would take such a document seriously ever again.
If you don't have any other choice better than pilot employment in Hong Kong, then yes it makes sense to accept the high risk employment with the likes of cathay pacific. But only if you're truly that desparate. I'm here to tell you yes I would if I was that desparate or had some extremely pressing reason to be in Hong Kong. Loved ones, family etc. I was lucky to be able to get a flying job making 3 times what a cathay captain tops out at. I resigned with zero notice given overnight, just like cathay pacific ripped up my contract overnight.
I understand that speaking the truth when truth is inconvenient to those who simply have no decent choice and are forced to accept the conditions at cathay which is not only substanrard but entirely unstable and it forces them to see the reality of the sh!tty situation they're in resulting in feelings of anxiety, hopelessness and helplessness. But this is not a valid reason to withhold the truth. No apologies to those who display such feelings here on this form or elswhere whenever inconvenient truths are written or spoken. But yes I do feel for you and your predicament.
In Hong Kong nothing at all was required to be shown to anyone and it was perfectly legal to rip up an employment contract summarily. All that was needed for this to happen was an extremely unscrupulous employer to decide to do it.
In Hong Kong, it was proven that a contract you sign with an employer (cathay pacific) isn't worth the toilet paper it is signed on. Proven via legal precedence.
This was not what cathay pacific implied up to that point at all. During the interview process the interviewers showed us selected sections of "the contract" including the pay scales making a strong point doing the math about how much you will earn if you spend 10, 20 etc years on that payscale, among a few other strong point in there. Pay, Career progression, last in first out protection etc were harped upon. A very strong effort was put in to make the point how strong and enforceable of a contract it was. All proven to be lies. The outrageous thing is that after all that, cathay pacific is still lying outright about what a new prospect can expect from working at cathay. As if anything cathay pacific says, even if written in an employment document has any chance of being anything other than a lie. You can clearly see this from the type of questions being asked by people considering working for cathay. That they can have any expectations of pay, progression, equipment assigned, job security etc. They wouldn't be asking these questions if they weren't being lied to by cathay pacific. If you too lie to them when they ask for your help... shame on you.
Let them make their decisions with open eyes, with truth in hand.
Don't try to glorify or normalize the utterly sh!t situation you're in regarding your employer to make yourself feel better.
Even if cathay pacific is forced to put everyone back on pre covid contracts, nobody in the right state of mind would take such a document seriously ever again.
If you don't have any other choice better than pilot employment in Hong Kong, then yes it makes sense to accept the high risk employment with the likes of cathay pacific. But only if you're truly that desparate. I'm here to tell you yes I would if I was that desparate or had some extremely pressing reason to be in Hong Kong. Loved ones, family etc. I was lucky to be able to get a flying job making 3 times what a cathay captain tops out at. I resigned with zero notice given overnight, just like cathay pacific ripped up my contract overnight.
I understand that speaking the truth when truth is inconvenient to those who simply have no decent choice and are forced to accept the conditions at cathay which is not only substanrard but entirely unstable and it forces them to see the reality of the sh!tty situation they're in resulting in feelings of anxiety, hopelessness and helplessness. But this is not a valid reason to withhold the truth. No apologies to those who display such feelings here on this form or elswhere whenever inconvenient truths are written or spoken. But yes I do feel for you and your predicament.
It is an inconvenient truth.
It’s also a selective truth.
Anyone who’s joined any department of CX over the past few decades has either known their contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, or was naive.
I’ve no issues with educating the naive, but which group did you fall into following;
The A scale sign or be fired.
The 49ers.
The Adelaide instructors.
The Paris based pilots.
The Frankfurt based pilots.
The Californian based crew.
The cabin crew contract changes.
The engineers contract changes.
Naive? Or willing to take the risk it wouldn’t happen to you? Or risk that if it did you’d still be better off than the alternatives on offer?
Even QF in the nanny state of Australia has ripped up contracts, admitted it was illegal, and happily paid the fine as it was cheaper than honouring the employment contract.
Yes, CX management is appalling, particularly in regards to honouring contracts. Has been for decades. Just because it’s now happened to you doesn’t make it newsworthy.
They finally gave you the straw that broke your back. Thats understandable. Move on, instead of just threatening to.
Last edited by Progress Wanchai; 16th July 2025 at 13:53.
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 86
Likes: 64
From: Skokie, Ill
“(4) wrong passport” - a cheap excuse
Several CX pilots have successfully migrated to the US - the Middle East is also available to anyone.
There is always the U.K. and most Saffas have access to Europe via their ancestors.
Nobody is stuck in HKG unless they choose to be stuck.
Several CX pilots have successfully migrated to the US - the Middle East is also available to anyone.
There is always the U.K. and most Saffas have access to Europe via their ancestors.
Nobody is stuck in HKG unless they choose to be stuck.
Last edited by Verbal Kint; 16th July 2025 at 15:21.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 206
Likes: 20
From: DSOTM
Yes, CX management is appalling, particularly in regards to honouring contracts. Has been for decades. Just because it’s now happened to you doesn’t make it newsworthy.
They finally gave you the straw that broke your back. Thats understandable. Move on, instead of just threatening to.
They finally gave you the straw that broke your back. Thats understandable. Move on, instead of just threatening to.
There are a handful of societies in Europe where labour contracts still mean something and not unsurprisingly those companies are having a hard time competing with the rest of the world.
People can complain about CX all they want and undoubtedly their criticism is fair. That being said compared to the sandpit or most jobs in Europe (with only 2-3 exceptions if you join young enough) it remains a viable option for plenty of people.
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 86
Likes: 64
From: Skokie, Ill
Only FedEx/UPS have pensions. The passenger airlines dropped them a couple of decades ago, post 9-11. In its place is a 401(k) (=PFund). Untouchable in bankruptcy proceedings. The company can’t access it.
CH11 is a thing, but big difference is only the Judge gets to tear up contracts, not a profit-making airline as Cathay was at the time.
CH11 is a thing, but big difference is only the Judge gets to tear up contracts, not a profit-making airline as Cathay was at the time.
Last edited by Verbal Kint; 17th July 2025 at 13:44.
Joined: Jul 2025
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17
Likes: 2
From: Athens
Only FedEx/UPS have pensions. The passenger airlines dropped them a couple of decades ago, post 9-11. In its place is a 401(k) (=PFund). Untouchable in bankruptcy proceedings. The company can’t access it.
CH11 is a thing, but big difference is only the Judge gets to tear up contracts, not a profit-making airline as Cathay was at the time.
CH11 is a thing, but big difference is only the Judge gets to tear up contracts, not a profit-making airline as Cathay was at the time.
what will I have after 30 years
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 149
Likes: 20
From: HK
“(4) wrong passport” - a cheap excuse
Several CX pilots have successfully migrated to the US - the Middle East is also available to anyone.
There is always the U.K. and most Saffas have access to Europe via their ancestors.
Nobody is stuck in HKG unless they choose to be stuck.
Several CX pilots have successfully migrated to the US - the Middle East is also available to anyone.
There is always the U.K. and most Saffas have access to Europe via their ancestors.
Nobody is stuck in HKG unless they choose to be stuck.