CX SO Prospect
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 79
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From: Earth
I used "somewhat recognized" only because there is, as you say, separate RP ratings in Canada, and because pilots there would typically dump all their cruise hours into the "Co-pilot" column of their logbook. I'm not sure if an CX SO doing the same if applying for a job in Canada would have the same recognition. I'd say probably, but to not lose sight of the bigger picture, being employable is still a huge problem. This is because when an employer goes through the logbook during the recruitment process, they would assess (assuming they are doing their jobs) the kind of flying the applicant has performed. If the overwhelming majority of a pilot's logbook is cruise time without takeoffs and landings, this makes him/her far less employable than someone with actual P1/P2 time.
On the other end of the spectrum, you would think an AC RP applying to the likes of EK, should not have their RP time counted since in essence it's the same as P2X time... I know we're getting a bit into semantics, but reality is, if we're counting hours logged as per ICAO, time in seat is time in seat... You sat 1000 hours in a 777, it shouldn't matter if it was done as an RP in Canada, Europe, HK, or anywhere else, if one is looking purely at hours for hiring requirements...
Last edited by a334; 25th November 2023 at 21:34.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: hk
Hi Panda express,
Unfortunately SO time is largely a Cathay construct and is not really recognized in most places around the world. This is true for the US, and also Canada, despite the post above saying otherwise. EK will not accept it, I'm not sure about Australia. UK apparently have just began to accept it at half. US regional carriers in an interview will likely have never heard of such a foreign concept, and will be skeptical of it.
Not many places will recognize it making it next to useless; that's not to say the job is uesless it's more to say being an SO for the logbook is not productive move forward. People become an SO for the promotion to FO, of which the time is very useful and valuable for applying for other jobs. The only problem with that is you have to be an SO first, and currently there are SOs at Cathay who have been stuck in that position for 8+ years so it's a big commitment to see through.
As an aside, it seems like your position is that you are a HK US dual national with the goal of a career in the US but with the option to be a cadet in HK. I would look at it as how long will it take you from Day 1 in HK to having a useful chunk of FO time in the logbook to make you marketable to US carriers, rather than gaining SO time
Unfortunately SO time is largely a Cathay construct and is not really recognized in most places around the world. This is true for the US, and also Canada, despite the post above saying otherwise. EK will not accept it, I'm not sure about Australia. UK apparently have just began to accept it at half. US regional carriers in an interview will likely have never heard of such a foreign concept, and will be skeptical of it.
Not many places will recognize it making it next to useless; that's not to say the job is uesless it's more to say being an SO for the logbook is not productive move forward. People become an SO for the promotion to FO, of which the time is very useful and valuable for applying for other jobs. The only problem with that is you have to be an SO first, and currently there are SOs at Cathay who have been stuck in that position for 8+ years so it's a big commitment to see through.
As an aside, it seems like your position is that you are a HK US dual national with the goal of a career in the US but with the option to be a cadet in HK. I would look at it as how long will it take you from Day 1 in HK to having a useful chunk of FO time in the logbook to make you marketable to US carriers, rather than gaining SO time
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 27
Likes: 1
From: Hong Kong
Thanks for chiming in. Allow me to go off topic a bit, I notice there is a HKIAA cadet program and chances are cadets will also become SO in one of the three regional airlines: HX, UO, GBA. Will the SO time in these airlines be more translatable to other countries as they will be at the right seats of the narrow body, logging P2 time?
The caveat is that this cadet program is self funded and a job is not guaranteed.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: hk
If you get on with any of those carriers, you will get a full P1 rating and will log P1US and P2. You will fly the right hand seat, either as an FO or as an SO doing an FO job. The experience gained is translatable and is in fact very valuable.
The caveat is that this cadet program is self funded and a job is not guaranteed.
The caveat is that this cadet program is self funded and a job is not guaranteed.
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 27
Likes: 1
From: Hong Kong
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Australia
I moved back to Australia and flying domestic. A lot more rewarding flying and less chronically fatiguing. Also nice to speak about anything other than management and the company on the flight deck.
If you looking at getting out good luck in your search. Enjoyed the some of the time at CX but glad I have left.
Logged P2X for time in seat as always translated to co-pilot time in Aus logbook as that’s how the Qantas SO’s log it.
If you looking at getting out good luck in your search. Enjoyed the some of the time at CX but glad I have left.
Logged P2X for time in seat as always translated to co-pilot time in Aus logbook as that’s how the Qantas SO’s log it.
G'Day ProgressYonder,
Any chance you could send me a PM as I'd love to ask some questions about CX and P2X.
Thanks,
ItsHewNotMatt
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Australia
I moved back to Australia and flying domestic. A lot more rewarding flying and less chronically fatiguing. Also nice to speak about anything other than management and the company on the flight deck.
If you looking at getting out good luck in your search. Enjoyed the some of the time at CX but glad I have left.
Logged P2X for time in seat as always translated to co-pilot time in Aus logbook as that’s how the Qantas SO’s log it.
If you looking at getting out good luck in your search. Enjoyed the some of the time at CX but glad I have left.
Logged P2X for time in seat as always translated to co-pilot time in Aus logbook as that’s how the Qantas SO’s log it.
Just wondering if you know where there is information from CASA about having P2X hours recognised in Australia, as this is one of the biggest considerations for me for a CX SO position.
Thanks,
ItsHewNotMatt
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 987
Likes: 197
From: Mexico City
Not doubting you but just surprised that P2X counts as FO time when you don't do any take offs or landings.
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Casa Par 61.085
61.085 Definition of flight time as co‑pilot for Part 61 A person’s flight time as a co‑pilot is any period, during flight in an aircraft that, under these Regulations, must be flown with a flight crew of at least 2 pilots, in which the person is performing co‑pilot duties other than as pilot in command under supervision.
Note: A co‑pilot is a pilot on board an aircraft in a piloting capacity other than the pilot in command or a pilot who is on board the aircraft for the sole purpose of receiving flight training: see the definition of co‑pilot in Part 1 of the Dictionary.
Takeoffs and landings don’t mean anything in logging flight time as that’s only for the PF to log else you wouldn’t be logging and PM sectors you do. Key phrase co-pilot “any period, during flight.” The Note has a clarification of on board in a piloting capacity other than PIC.
If your SO time doesn’t count as co-pilot then you are not acting as a co-pilot when on the flight deck and therefore a 2 crew aircraft is operating single crew.
Bunk time does not count.
Note: A co‑pilot is a pilot on board an aircraft in a piloting capacity other than the pilot in command or a pilot who is on board the aircraft for the sole purpose of receiving flight training: see the definition of co‑pilot in Part 1 of the Dictionary.
Takeoffs and landings don’t mean anything in logging flight time as that’s only for the PF to log else you wouldn’t be logging and PM sectors you do. Key phrase co-pilot “any period, during flight.” The Note has a clarification of on board in a piloting capacity other than PIC.
If your SO time doesn’t count as co-pilot then you are not acting as a co-pilot when on the flight deck and therefore a 2 crew aircraft is operating single crew.
Bunk time does not count.
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 428
Likes: 20
From: HKG
I suggest if you are looking at leaving CX (who isn't), contact the aviation authority in the country you hope to move to and ask how they view HKG S/O P2X time. Many countries allow you to log total flight time.
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 428
Likes: 20
From: HKG
I suggest if you are looking at leaving CX (who isn't), contact the aviation authority in the country you hope to move to and ask how they view HKG S/O P2X time. Many countries allow you to log total flight time.
