DEFO Interview
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: @Home
I have a few mates in Cathay training, and the 20% pass rate for the sim is confirmed.
The ability/experience level of the applicants for the current package is abysmal, and it's no wonder. All they can attract now are misfits and desperados, or pilots from countries with highly questionable logbooks and licences.
The trainers/checkers are quite rightly putting their foot down, and demanding the same standards as Cathay used to have.
They would rather see Cathay go down the swanny, which is where it's headed, than be directly or indirectly responsible for a hull loss, which is where it's also headed.
Karma is a biatch.
The ability/experience level of the applicants for the current package is abysmal, and it's no wonder. All they can attract now are misfits and desperados, or pilots from countries with highly questionable logbooks and licences.
The trainers/checkers are quite rightly putting their foot down, and demanding the same standards as Cathay used to have.
They would rather see Cathay go down the swanny, which is where it's headed, than be directly or indirectly responsible for a hull loss, which is where it's also headed.
Karma is a biatch.
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: lima
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
From: England
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Canada
I just got invited for the DEFO interview at Cathay as well. I am currently an FO for a major airline in Canada and have a stay at home wife and a few kids. Based on the responses it seems that it will be hard to afford living in Hong Kong with a family as a Cathay FO. Does anyone have experience moving with family for the FO job? Thanks!
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 103
Likes: 2
From: Lonely planet
I just got invited for the DEFO interview at Cathay as well. I am currently an FO for a major airline in Canada and have a stay at home wife and a few kids. Based on the responses it seems that it will be hard to afford living in Hong Kong with a family as a Cathay FO. Does anyone have experience moving with family for the FO job? Thanks!
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: Cern
I don't think you understand how a pension works... what you're asking for is a double pension for day 1 as a second officer and that's not how life works. Second officers rent and save as much as they can until they are ready, first officers buy a little place with their working wife or if they've saved for a nice deposit, Captains have nice big houses. Same as any where else in the world.. in any industry.
And yes you can afford to buy a 3 bedroom house in Tung Chung for say $7.5m, that's just over 30k a month in repayments (and the interest rates are high right now, but they always change!) location location location.. HK is and always will be one of the most expensive cities to buy property in on the planet!
So no a property you bought is not your retirement, your pension that you contributed to for the last 30 years is your retirement.
And yes you can afford to buy a 3 bedroom house in Tung Chung for say $7.5m, that's just over 30k a month in repayments (and the interest rates are high right now, but they always change!) location location location.. HK is and always will be one of the most expensive cities to buy property in on the planet!
So no a property you bought is not your retirement, your pension that you contributed to for the last 30 years is your retirement.
The pension is woefully low. To the point that if one retires in Hong Kong, 10 years of pension money will last them 2 years at best.
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 103
Likes: 2
From: Lonely planet
I don't think you understand how a pension works... what you're asking for is a double pension for day 1 as a second officer and that's not how life works. Second officers rent and save as much as they can until they are ready, first officers buy a little place with their working wife or if they've saved for a nice deposit, Captains have nice big houses. Same as any where else in the world.. in any industry.
And yes you can afford to buy a 3 bedroom house in Tung Chung for say $7.5m, that's just over 30k a month in repayments (and the interest rates are high right now, but they always change!) location location location.. HK is and always will be one of the most expensive cities to buy property in on the planet!
So no a property you bought is not your retirement, your pension that you contributed to for the last 30 years is your retirement.
And yes you can afford to buy a 3 bedroom house in Tung Chung for say $7.5m, that's just over 30k a month in repayments (and the interest rates are high right now, but they always change!) location location location.. HK is and always will be one of the most expensive cities to buy property in on the planet!
So no a property you bought is not your retirement, your pension that you contributed to for the last 30 years is your retirement.
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Basically if you have a wife and kids, wife not working, paying for expat schooling - I think you'll be on struggle street; you'll never get on the HK housing ladder first of all; just look at rental costs for a modest 3 bedder in Tung Chung it'll easily set you back 30k HKD pm, so what's the whole point in coming to HK as an expat? You can't afford to buy an apartment in HK (this will be your retirement nest egg) and when you head back to Canada when you retire you won't have a house there neither. Just imagine that, worked your whole life till 65 and nothing to show for it, welcome to the new reality of living on COS18.
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: Cern
The fact that you :
1) immediately choose a more expensive house
2) believe any pension on the planet is good for retirement after 10 years of contributions
The above shows a huge issue and a complete misunderstanding on how investing works. You need to look at contributions / growth over the long term and see what the graph does. This notion of "I want to work for CX or any airline for 10 years and retire on a 100m yacht with $10m in the bank is madness"
Investing is a slow game, not a get rich quick scheme.
1) immediately choose a more expensive house
2) believe any pension on the planet is good for retirement after 10 years of contributions
The above shows a huge issue and a complete misunderstanding on how investing works. You need to look at contributions / growth over the long term and see what the graph does. This notion of "I want to work for CX or any airline for 10 years and retire on a 100m yacht with $10m in the bank is madness"
Investing is a slow game, not a get rich quick scheme.
Also the property I stated is enough of a decent size (by Hong Kong standards), in the cheapest complex in the cheapest suburb
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: World's biggest Bunker
The biggest thing with CX is the "IF's" you might be able to make it work IF the flying increases as they try to get the flying schedule back to 2019 levels IF they don't change the min hours which determines how much $$$ you make IF they don't decide to change anything else which is ALL at their discretion as its policy not a CBA.
You are obviously an FO at with WS or AC, there have been lots of Canadian pilots at CX going in the exact opposite direction to what you are looking at, Captain and FO's (myself included). However apply go have a look at HK and make your own mind up, just remember at WS or AC you have a Union with a CBA written in stone that if gets messed with you file a grievance with an arbitrator in HK you have none of that its all at the company's whim, so what you sign up for you may lose a month later.
And if you think Canada is expensive go have a walk around a HK grocery store and look for the stuff your kids eat.
Good luck to you.
You are obviously an FO at with WS or AC, there have been lots of Canadian pilots at CX going in the exact opposite direction to what you are looking at, Captain and FO's (myself included). However apply go have a look at HK and make your own mind up, just remember at WS or AC you have a Union with a CBA written in stone that if gets messed with you file a grievance with an arbitrator in HK you have none of that its all at the company's whim, so what you sign up for you may lose a month later.
And if you think Canada is expensive go have a walk around a HK grocery store and look for the stuff your kids eat.
Good luck to you.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 149
Likes: 11
From: havetocallthereception
I never stated it’s a get rich quick. I know how investing works. But when the funds available in the provident fund are junk. My timeline was, 10 years in provident fund from CX will give you about $100K-$150 HKD per year, so that’s about at best $1.5M, that’s without investing, let’s assume an 80% return over the 10 years, that leaves you shy of $3 mill. Like I said, at best 2 years living in Hong Kong. Maybe 3 years
Also the property I stated is enough of a decent size (by Hong Kong standards), in the cheapest complex in the cheapest suburb
Also the property I stated is enough of a decent size (by Hong Kong standards), in the cheapest complex in the cheapest suburb
DDDO got it right, the problem is the uncertainty. Tough call to move without knowing what to expect financially.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: 1st Floor
There are plenty of returning captains to cx who previously left for whatever reason .
What’s their motivation if its so bad, and the salary is so poor?
I hear the current cx overtime can push up the monthly salary of senior captains to over $250hk per month? Ok , you work for it , just saying it’s achievable.
Don't just base your life on the basic salary. Its a package, and overtime forms a large part (sometimes. !)
What’s their motivation if its so bad, and the salary is so poor?
I hear the current cx overtime can push up the monthly salary of senior captains to over $250hk per month? Ok , you work for it , just saying it’s achievable.
Don't just base your life on the basic salary. Its a package, and overtime forms a large part (sometimes. !)
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 128
Likes: 13
From: Asia
There are plenty of returning captains to cx who previously left for whatever reason .
What’s their motivation if its so bad, and the salary is so poor?
I hear the current cx overtime can push up the monthly salary of senior captains to over $250hk per month? Ok , you work for it , just saying it’s achievable.
Don't just base your life on the basic salary. Its a package, and overtime forms a large part (sometimes. !)
What’s their motivation if its so bad, and the salary is so poor?
I hear the current cx overtime can push up the monthly salary of senior captains to over $250hk per month? Ok , you work for it , just saying it’s achievable.
Don't just base your life on the basic salary. Its a package, and overtime forms a large part (sometimes. !)
I don't have the very latest Mercer cost of living index in front of me but they specialise in telling companies how much tp pay someone living in one country when they move them to another as an expat. And they charge a lot for it.
Last time I looked at the 2019 Index, based on a couple with two kids, Hong Kong was 1.61 times as expensive as Vancouver or Toronto to live. I'm not talking moving from Richmond or Burlington to eat cup noodles in 700 sq ft !!!!!hole on Cheung Sha Island, I'm talking having the same equivalent lifestyle. The cost of living in Hong Kong is far greater than the tax difference between Canada and Hong Kong or Australia and Hong Kong. Guys just see the Net salary, and have no idea at all about the actual cost of living.
Having said that, it amazes me how many out there are riding the bus everywhere, feeding their family the cup noodles, missing out on extended family and friends back home, and telling themselves the place and package is still the greatest. The delusion is remarkable. They can't bear the thought that they signed up for CX all those years ago, the package has drastically changed, and they've stuck their head in the sand as the solution. And seniority lists make the decision absolute, you can't slot into a 330 CN job at QF or a 787 CN job at AC and all your mates who decided to stay at their legacy carriers rather than take that CX job offer have in hindsight, in 2023, made the better decision.
Every time I'm in an aircrew immigration queue anywhere, every other airline pities us, offers condolences and feels sorry for us for what our package has become.