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Work Visa renewals

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Work Visa renewals

Old 4th Apr 2021, 04:40
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HKG
Posts: 49
ascalehero

I think the issue is taking our aircraft and routes again! (remember the 744)You dont seen to mind the 8 direct entry captains from Ka nor the direct entry GMIOC or DCP Airbus! Nor for that matter the 744 Captains that came across,

It looks from the outside that CX can do as they please with their crews and having scrapped seniority will continue to do so.
The issue is can they do as the please with immigration law?

I personally think they've opened a pandoras box with this one not just externally but with all the based crews some of whom are very senior but not PR.
In the long run it will resolve itself as CX will eventually have to recruit and then we shall see what happens.
At the moment CX is grossly overmanned and bleeding. The work visa issue gives them the perfect excuse to yet again do as they please.

I quote John Slosar “we are one airline same team same dream” Did we really believe that?

Yawn Im going back to retirement good luck with ensuing mess.

Last edited by Walkingthedog; 4th Apr 2021 at 05:02.
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Old 4th Apr 2021, 05:49
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 332
swh,

I respect that facts donít matter for the current generation but they do for the Immigration Department.

What was the curriculum of training required for the KA pilots now flying at CX? Whether airbus crew or 747 crew.
What was the required curriculum for CX airbus pilots to now be flying at AHK?

Last edited by Progress Wanchai; 4th Apr 2021 at 06:05.
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Old 4th Apr 2021, 06:10
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rabbit Hutch
Posts: 133
swh knows the answer but he likes to make stuff up.
The magnificent eight just had to go to uniform stores and swop their red ties for a green one, a name badge, a belt and some different buttons for their jacket. Who was gonna test them? No-one; they then went to Toulouse and started picking up Neos and collecting sheds from Alice. Oh, and became managers and DCP etc.
The 744 guys years ago just did two sims and four sectors and away they went.
The rated guys going to AHK from KA only do CRM and a couple of sims and AEP unless of course they need to do a rating.
Any KA pilot can readily fly an Airbus for CX or AHK. There might just be an argument that the Triple or Jumbo involves a bit more.
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Old 4th Apr 2021, 11:53
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lagos
Posts: 815
What about tourist visa ? When will quarantine hotel stop ? Wife is a Korean, i was in Middle East . When can we enter
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Old 4th Apr 2021, 12:59
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 332
Dragon Pacific

So a jump and slide, couple of sims in an underutilized sim and some sectors that are happening anyway.

Will be interesting to see how the Director of Immigration defines “cannot be readily taken up by the local work force”. Particularly remembering this isn’t CX’s first rodeo. There was a long argument with the Immigration Department that training i-cadets for 18 months was necessary as there weren’t sufficient numbers of locals with the necessary cross section of talents required to be an airline pilot. If there was difficulty in arguing an 18 month course for foreigners was necessary, there will be an even harder argument that a month long course for locals is unnecessary.
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Old 4th Apr 2021, 21:24
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: HK
Age: 60
Posts: 1
In the heated context of this discussion, does a PR actually have any practical preferential status? No doubt being a HK passport holder affords preferential treatment. But a foreign subject holding PR in this new HK?
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 02:50
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: VHHK
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific View Post
The magnificent eight just had to go to uniform stores and swop their red ties for a green one, a name badge, a belt and some different buttons for their jacket.
There was 8 at one stage. 5 months later, not one of them has performed a commercial flight under the CX AOC that I am aware of.

Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific View Post
Who was gonna test them?
That is one of the key issues, CAD TRE authorizations under CAD360 are only valid within the airline they are issued to. When KA ceased to exist, so did those TRE authorizations.

Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific View Post
No-one; they then went to Toulouse and started picking up Neos and collecting sheds from Alice.
They were not done as a commercial operation under the CX AOC.

Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific View Post
The 744 guys years ago just did two sims and four sectors and away they went.
That simply is not true, and fact is not all of them passed.

Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific View Post
The rated guys going to AHK from KA only do CRM and a couple of sims and AEP unless of course they need to do a rating.
Again this is not true, CAD360 stipulates “An operator is responsible for ensuring that all persons have the training, experience and practice and have undergone the periodical tests specified in Part B of Schedule 11 to the AN(HK)O, before acting as crew members on any flight for the purpose of public transport.”

Prior to operating a public transport flight, and commencement of LFUS, the records must show that a pilot has satisfactorily completed the appropriate approved ground and flight simulator course and if applicable aircraft base training. It therefore follows that a valid PC form shall be part of the training records. They must show that the pilot is properly licensed with a Group 1 or P2X endorsement on his Hong Kong License and that all Schedule 9 and 11 and CAD 360 requirements have been met including evidence of competence in AEP/SEPT, RVSM, LVO, GPS approaches, RNP and any special airspace qualification, CRM, route and airfield qualification.”

From the start of ground school to the completion of a line check is at minimum of around 3 months, the cost of that training would be close the cost of a full years FOs base salary. It is neither quick, or cheap to get a new pilot online.

Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific View Post
Any KA pilot can readily fly an Airbus for CX or AHK.
CX has interviewed and employed pilots from other HK operators in the past including CR Airways, Hong Kong Airlines, Oasis, and Dragon, not all pass the interview, not all pass the training.

Having a qualification does not mean an employer is obligated to employ someone, that is what the interview process is about, to screen out those who are not suitable. How many thousands of people with PRs do you think miss out on a cadet pilot course, or even as a role as cabin crew ? Even KA didn’t employ some pilots that applied from Hing Kong airlines with A320/A330 type rating and employed non type rated people on work permits.
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 03:05
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: HK
Posts: 15
hkgfooey

you have neglected the fact that cx sacked some of their local pilots as well. They are just 1/2 PC away from flying again. What about them? They obviously are ready workforce
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 03:27
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 332
As are the based crew who hold PR status that are asking to return to Hong Kong in accordance with the PBPA.

The training process for the CX airbus crew who have temporarily transferred to the AHK A330 fleet was straightforward and expeditious.
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 04:54
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Docklands UK
Posts: 22
Here you go sybil

According to section 27 of the Legislative Council Ordinance, the right to vote is also conferred with permanent residence.

Under normal circumstances, only permanent residents are entitled to social benefits such as public housing and assistance payments (e.g. Comprehensive Social Security Assistance).

Broadly speaking, the rights of permanent residence are enjoyed equally by all Hong Kong permanent residents, regardless of whether they are Chinese or foreign citizens. However, those who are Chinese citizens have some additional rights. For example, Chinese citizens who are also Hong Kong permanent residents are entitled to apply for Hong Kong SAR passports and home return permits (for travel to Mainland China), and can also hold senior posts in the Hong Kong SAR Government.

The link for your reference to avoid squabbling like little girls : Hong Kong Permanent Resident

More concerning for those in management and human resource positions are the penalties for making false declarations on the ID 990B & ID 91 Forms. If you are found to be guilty of making false declarations on these documents you are liable to $150,000 Fine AND 14 years imprisonment. These include false statements, declarations and authenticity of the information provided.

I wish you well.
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Old 9th Apr 2021, 12:28
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 5
Anyone hearing that immiD have stopped issuing visas altogether regardless of roster? A mate of mine went down to counter 30 with a roster and was told "still processing".
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Old 9th Apr 2021, 13:30
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Hotel
Posts: 3
Fired engineers end of last year just to make the quota numbers - now back filling vacancies within Engineering with trainees from the pilot scheme who were previously in ENG .... also fired good engineers who had permanent HKG ID status, and now having difficulty getting visa renewals for those in ENG requiring work visa renewal... what brain dead muppets on 8th floor made that call
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Old 9th Apr 2021, 16:13
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 304
Unfortunately these days silo A that hires and fires isn’t silo B that you work within. Silo A costs go down silo B suffers consequences and costs go up.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 04:06
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: HK
Posts: 15
666305

As of what I heard, one time three month extension then no more extension will be given. The lady in immiD dealing with the visa issue has been working in CAD/Transportation bureau before, so she know the in and out of the airline operation. Roster is totally controlled by the airline and cant fool them anymore.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 04:48
  #115 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Honkers
Posts: 6
Whatís the roster got to do with the process. You either employed and sponsored by your company or not... did I miss something?

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Old 11th Apr 2021, 06:06
  #116 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 124
They require a roster now to prove you are actually working to be able to get a renewal sorted. A whole bunch of days off pretty much assures no visa renewal. New system for the 2021 muck about.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 06:17
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rabbit Hutch
Posts: 133
What would be the point in renewing a work visa for for instance a 777 pilot who hadnít flown since Feb 2020? As and when/if 777 pilots are needed there is plenty of time to recruit and train unemployed locals.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 06:26
  #118 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Honkers
Posts: 6
oh dear. I think you’ve totally missed the concept here.

And where does a airline find ‘spare’ cash to train or re qualified when needed? They’re all on the brink of collapsing.

I also think it’s NOT about locals. It’s the principle of employment of eligible people, starting from HK Nationals, HKPRs then the rest. having said that, locals are looking for help now whereas 2019 they have another idea.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 06:37
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rabbit Hutch
Posts: 133
And what does training cost in real terms? Nothing is what it costs. The sims exist, the training centre is there, the instructors and STCs are there and being paid whether they train anyone or not.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 07:18
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Hk
Posts: 12
Donblock

Where does an airline find spare cash? what difference does it make?

They’ll need similar training whether coming off a furlough or back online after a 15+ month break.
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