Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

CoS 21

Old 18th Nov 2020, 02:58
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 113
Frank W. Abagnale

That is because it is a generic Cos 21 to be applied to all group airlines. Next step will be to freely move pilots between the three airlines as and when and where required.
GMEDX is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 03:36
  #42 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 231
No it isn't. Both HKE and HKA have always had SO payscales. It was for an HNA program of bringing in local cadets which I am not sure saw the light of day. I am guessing it is kept there incase cadets ever make their way in.
Rie is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 03:49
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 370
I think you will find that the SO scale is there because CX will dictate that SO's be in the RHS as per previous KA ops.
The people making these decisions are not pilots, they will demand that if KA could do it incident free then CX/HKE should be able to do it.
This is the new paradigm, get with the program, or get "off boarded", there are plenty of out of work pilots to replace you.
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 04:11
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 113
Rie

That may be so but it still smacks of being a generic pay scale for Group airlines. And of course as stated there is no reason why the RHS pilot shouldn’t be a SO; no need to pay them too much.
GMEDX is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 09:48
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: San Diego
Posts: 10
I can’t see that. CX always needs a lower scale to aim for and how will they be able to divide and conquer if everyone is equal? Cos21 will be the next target for CX crew and when the next opportunity arises HKE will go lower still.
0ztranaut is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 11:33
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: sierra village
Posts: 390
Pzickuptruck

A brutal way to put it. Here’s hoping you didn’t intend to be unkind.

Nevertheless, you made a couple of valid points. The profession has, for want of a better phrase, been increasingly dumbed down or de skilled over the past two decades. This is a direct result of the advances in technology in aircraft automation and positioning and also in ground support systems all of which combine to reduce the need for the wide range of skills required in the bad old days.

For the safety of the travelling public this is a good thing.For the profession to stand up and say they’re worth more money because they have some arcane skills this is not so good.

Aircraft manufacturers sell their product as being simple to operate and requiring minimal training or prior experience. Looking at airlines around the region, you’d have to say they have succeeded. Admittedly, the 737-Max demonstrated a flaw in that paradigm but that’s all water under the bridge now.

Can you blame management for thinking why pay the big bucks for an enhanced skill set when it isn’t necessary in today’s environment?

lucille is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 12:41
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 143
Pickuptruck, sorry to say but you are an idiot. Why would you compare with Norwegian, the lowest paid LH pilots in (Western) Europe. If this pandemic has proven anything, it is that you are much more likely to keep your job (and decent T&Cís) if you are in a unionized legacy then if you are in a loco. As a contractor you will always be the first one to go. And righteously so.
SaulGoodman is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 17:47
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: England
Posts: 591
‘Righteously’.... as others have said, like rats in a sack.
Kitsune is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 23:05
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,915
KA pilots often had their projected hours decimated by China delays. A 3-3 pattern worth 10 hours + would often turn into a 1-1 PVG pattern with two high duty time days. The contract offered some protection with Hourly Duty Pay or a a flying hour credit of half your duty. Even with these additions to the contract that don't seem to be in the COS21, 320 pilots would gripe.

So whoever takes over the China flying could be in for surprises exceeding the joys of the franchised mainland Holiday Inns' you'll be staying in.

MFF 321/330/350 will be hard work even for the talented at CX. A similar proposal unanimously voted down by the DPA on safety grounds ( back in the day pilots had a say ).

Last edited by Gnadenburg; 18th Nov 2020 at 23:31.
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Old 19th Nov 2020, 00:38
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: FUMOD
Posts: 62
just to spread more joy to the fold; it’ll only be 330/320 and not 330/350/320
Hugo Peroni the V is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2020, 00:44
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 370
I believe CX are intending to leverage the huge success of their ďin-house EFB tabletĒ and begin to work on the worlds first and best MFF/CCQ of 777/320.
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2020, 00:56
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: FUMOD
Posts: 62
Obviously thatís coming. Why not take the opportunity to waste more money on management folly.

Havenít the troops been suggesting Jeppesen for about a decade?
Hugo Peroni the V is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2020, 06:02
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 687
How Far

Pickuptruck

Pickuptruck's motto; Times are tough, how far would you like me to bend over ?? These types are the death sign of any profession.. One should pray his mental poison doesn't spread to the Dental profession 🧐
Flex88 is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2020, 06:06
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 687
An observer

Farman Biplane

Im glad I'm not the only one who has a real grasp of the buffoons that are CX Management.. Thanx for watching as I do FB 👍🏼
Flex88 is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2020, 08:40
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by Oli777 View Post
tell that to the airline management of Asiana Airlines flight 214... your case is invalid
They don't care. The risk is already factored in. And insurance premium paid. To them its worth it as planes are not falling out of the sky.
wongsuzie is offline  

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