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Fuel Contracts

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Old 20th Apr 2020, 20:57
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Fuel Contracts

Can I interest anyone on the 3rd floor in a May NYM light crude May delivery? Just up your street, buy for -38 there must be a bonus at year end for this Lulu...

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Old 20th Apr 2020, 21:15
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Originally Posted by anxiao
Can I interest anyone on the 3rd floor in a May NYM light crude May delivery? Just up your street, buy for -38 there must be a bonus at year end for this Lulu...
Gotta put it somewhere... How about all those widebodies sitting on the aprons and taxiways in Hong Kong? That’ll make them heavier for when the season’s first typhoon blows through. Not a serious suggestion!
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 21:50
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Last time I checked, if you stuck crude oil in the fuel tanks the engines wouldn't be too chuffed about it when you fired them up..
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 22:08
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Originally Posted by Flying Clog
Last time I checked, if you stuck crude oil in the fuel tanks the engines wouldn't be too chuffed about it when you fired them up..
Would be like the whole VW scandal all over again!

OMAA
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 22:41
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It'd be a bloody environmental disaster! We complained about the pollution over Hong Kong before... imagine if all those airplanes at HKIA fired up one by one with oil in the fuel tanks!
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 22:57
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I wonder what price we are paying for fuel right now because oil at the moment is negative $38 . I never thought that I would see that
  • The May US WTI contract fell $55.9, or 306%, to settle at a discount of $37.63 a barrel after touching an all-time low of -$40.32 a barrel
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 23:06
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I believe CX is mostly hedged at around 60-70 usd. So not going to be pretty.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 01:18
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Originally Posted by Flying Clog
I believe CX is mostly hedged at around 60-70 usd. So not going to be pretty.
“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”
― George W. Bush
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 01:21
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Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Fool me thrice, must be a Cathay Pilot.

Rinse and repeat as necessary.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 01:24
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Yep, Oil today at $10.50 bl ... Expect more massive Fuel Hedging losses n 9th floor crying...
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 01:35
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If an airline can get a massive unsecured loan it must have some heavy backers. Air China must come into play soon? What a victory for Beijing if so.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 03:04
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Originally Posted by Flying Clog
I believe CX is mostly hedged at around 60-70 usd. So not going to be pretty.

even worse, they will have hedged c 50-70% of expected fuel requirements. As so little flying is being done, that means they need to buy oil at the hedged price that they won’t even be using, ie they are probably now hedged around 200% of fuel...
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 08:43
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Originally Posted by Freehills
even worse, they will have hedged c 50-70% of expected fuel requirements. As so little flying is being done, that means they need to buy oil at the hedged price that they won’t even be using, ie they are probably now hedged around 200% of fuel...
To be fair and put it in perspective, that will also be the same with almost every other airline out there!

You can’t blame decisions made before the pandemic for there outcome now.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 10:19
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Originally Posted by highflyer40
To be fair and put it in perspective, that will also be the same with almost every other airline out there!

You can’t blame decisions made before the pandemic for there outcome now.
True, but maybe CX should have learned their lesson about fuel hedging after losing $4B USD in the last five years and just stick with the spot prices???
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 10:21
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yeah but then what are all the MBA whizz kids going to do to earn their bonuses???
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 15:17
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Originally Posted by highflyer40
To be fair and put it in perspective, that will also be the same with almost every other airline out there!

You can’t blame decisions made before the pandemic for there outcome now.
AA does not hedge fuel at all, their CEO says it is just not worth it in the long run. Based on the 4B USD we recently lost plus the losses that are coming, I would say he is right. CX has lost more money through their hedging department than they have ever gained. The fact that these people are still employed while continuing to lose billions of dollars for the airline is gross negligence.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 15:26
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Interesting to note that the fuel hedging loss was equal to 16 months worth of the $2billion per month we are supposedly losing. That’s quite a lot!


Originally Posted by Dilbert68
AA does not hedge fuel at all, their CEO says it is just not worth it in the long run. Based on the 4B USD we recently lost plus the losses that are coming, I would say he is right. CX has lost more money through their hedging department than they have ever gained. The fact that these people are still employed while continuing to lose billions of dollars for the airline is gross negligence.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 20:01
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
yeah but then what are all the MBA whizz kids going to do to earn their bonuses???
Why abandon such a tried and true way of stuffing CX cash into the Swire coffers without having to split it with other shareholders or ”the help” (employees)? If you think the Swires aren’t on the other end of these trades, then I have a bridge to sell you...
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 20:19
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Originally Posted by Dilbert68
AA does not hedge fuel at all, their CEO says it is just not worth it in the long run. Based on the 4B USD we recently lost plus the losses that are coming, I would say he is right. CX has lost more money through their hedging department than they have ever gained. The fact that these people are still employed while continuing to lose billions of dollars for the airline is gross negligence.
It is likely that a certain HK company may have lost more in fuel hedging in the past 5 years (and the next two or three to come) than they have probably earned in profits since the mid 80's. Fair to say that decades of effort and dedication of it's long suffering staff have effectively been rendered worthless. Oh, the Swire family is still amongst the richest in the UK however.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 20:34
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Originally Posted by mngmt mole
It is likely that a certain HK company may have lost more in fuel hedging in the past 5 years (and the next two or three to come) than they have probably earned in profits since the mid 80's. Fair to say that decades of effort and dedication of it's long suffering staff have effectively been rendered worthless. Oh, the Swire family is still amongst the richest in the UK however.
Maybe the Swires’ eternal destinies are less enjoyable than their present circumstances. I hate to admit it, but a part of me hopes so.
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