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Deprature on MACAO Airport RWY 34

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Deprature on MACAO Airport RWY 34

Old 4th Dec 2019, 10:38
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Seoul
Posts: 13
Deprature on MACAO Airport RWY 34

Hi.
I flew to Macao airport (MFM) yesterday for the first time, and have a question on departure procedure for RWY 34.
Due to some noise issue, all departing traffic on RWY 34 have to turn right 15 degrees and climb to 400 ft. This is specified on departure plate.
Runway heading is 344, initial climb heading is 359.
This means we have to make a turning maneuver before reaching 400ft AGL, which conflicts with common knowledge.
We all know the minimum turning altitude for instrument departure is 400ft AGL isn't it?
So in this airport when do you guys start turning maneuver? If you make a turn below 400ft, do you have any reference for such an early turn?
Yesterday, we (me and my captain) decided to start turn after clearing 400ft AGL, and actually we overshoot the LNAV path.




joshuahsong is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 10:59
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Hopefully this will help, courtesy Airbus
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Starbear is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 11:44
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: london
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Nothing prevents you turning below 400 feet except tribal knowledge. There are plenty of departures that require a small track change very shortly after take off. I have flown that departure from Macau a few times and, as you discovered, you will have to be very light not to overshoot the required track if you don’t fly what’s on the plate. If you do it at Biggin Hill you will cause the turn back to the overhead to take you through the edge of Kenleys perimeter. Be wary of tribal knowledge chap.
GlenQuagmire is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 13:02
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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Not able (willing to spend time) to provide you with the text book stuff, but from a practical point of view I don´t see what stops you from doing an IFR flight, with and IFR departure, but with visual reference until 396´(or 394´..). If it´s a [email protected] wx day, then wait for the improvement if you´re uncomfortable. Further to that, the perfomance data used for the terps or pans ops construction of the departure would certaily cater for larger commercial jets, with a much longer takeoff distance than most biz jets at average weight, so you climbing to 400ft before turning, seems like a reasonable safe choice as well. Anyways, just practical input, not contributing with text book references, sorry.
Klimax is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 14:14
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SW1
 
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The JAR-OPS 1.495 specified no track changes below half the wingspan (56 feet on a A320) and above this to 400 feet you could bank a maximum of 15 degrees AOB.

A320 specifically- As the flight guidance part will limit your bank angle to 15 degrees AOB ,at typical take off speeds,and you have a track change of 15 degrees its acceptable to make the turn before 400 AGL just not below 56 feet ever.

Page 65 and 66 on the document "Getting to grips with aircraft performance" which STARBEAR posted a link to is the reference.
SW1 is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 14:47
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 8
PANS OPS: “ A straight departure is one in which the initial departure track is within 15 degrees of the alignment of the runway centerline. “

Also: “ The minimum obstacle clearance equals zero at the departure end of the runway (DER). From that point, it increases by 0.8 per cent of the horizontal distance in the direction of flight assuming a maximum turn of 15 degrees”

Just don’t turn 16 degrees.....
profo is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 10:44
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Proudly Europe
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We (air macau) only turn passing 400’. Regardless of what’s written...disregarding FD information. Before that 15° only and passing 400’ 30°
JMSA_PILOT is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 11:05
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wyoming
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If you follow LNAV it rarely turns you more than 5 degrees bank and is a very gentle manoeuvre. The important thing is to not overshoot and end up in Chinese (Zhuhai) airspace.
WYOMINGPILOT is offline  

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