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Hong Kong Airlines fighting to survive..

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Hong Kong Airlines fighting to survive..

Old 5th Apr 2020, 02:14
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Lavatory
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Zymian View Post
Well, you’re missing the point if you’re using A scale pay as a reference and saying that B is 33% less.
Seems you are missing the point. He is saying that B scale surpassed A scale some time ago and that it’s infact A scale that earns up to 33% less. From my understanding, A scale was good back in the 70s and 80s. HK was cheap then and they had enough $$ left over for all the Wan Chai hookers and blow they could handle. At some point though that contract stopped and those that remained on it saw no salary increment increases to a point where B became better than A.

....

Trafalgar, most FOs at HKA upgrade at less than 3 years, and sometimes in their 20’s.

Last edited by TimeToWhine; 5th Apr 2020 at 18:17.
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Old 5th Apr 2020, 03:13
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 9
In their 20s?

Well you’re either ignorant of the facts or just making them up.

No, FOs who have been upgraded are all in their mid 30s.
These are guys who’ve had 7-8 years flying experience in other airlines prior to joining HKA.

get your facts right.

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Old 5th Apr 2020, 10:35
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Aust
Posts: 102
[QUOTE=TimeToWhine;10739894]Seems you are missing the point. He is saying that B scale surpassed A scale some time ago and that it’s infact A scale that earns up to 33% less. From my understanding, A scale was good back in the 70s and 80s. HK was cheap then and they had enough $$ left over for all the Wan Chai hookers and blow they could handle. At some point though that contract stopped and those that remained on it saw no salary increment increases to a point where B became better than A.

....

Your understanding is way off. Hong Kong was never cheap., but no one needed hookers. A scale wasn't good, it was fantastic! Just give it up, you don't have a clue.
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Old 5th Apr 2020, 10:55
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 9
“From my understanding, A scale was good back in the 70s and 80s. HK was cheap then and they had enough $$ left over for all the Wan Chai hookers and blow they could handle”

from your understanding ??

Based on ignorance and presumptions more likely

the kind of comments you’d expect from a wannabe
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Old 5th Apr 2020, 16:13
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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The past few posts are all you need to appreciate how dire the situation is in HK aviation. The golden years of CX hiring the best, and promoting the best is long gone. All you now hear is "noise".
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 01:14
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Twenty years ago at KA, pilots were upgrading between 10 months and 18 months and ageism didn't factor. Failure rates could be anywhere between 50% to 100% in certain periods. KA has a higher number of sectors than CX ( which helps ) and for all its operational peculiarities, KA was a little more practical ( having briefly had both CX SOPs and a loaned CX chief pilot as reference )

In comparison to HKA, I guess sectors were the same? What isn't factored is that these very fast upgrades were done at a time when Airbus had not documented a lot of operational procedures- especially abnormals. KA's upgrade process was draconian in its structure and complaints of a lack of training was in some part to do with Airbus not documenting explanations of handling characteristics and detailing complex failures. This was the basis of a one chance final sim assessment on a LOFT and handling exercises.

As the years roll on, command processes have to be simpler and more successful. Airlines need to adapt with the times and their competition - KA was very slow to adapt and adjust their upgrade process due well-ingrained attitudes.

Some of the now edited comments above, regarding command upgrades at HKA versus CX, lack historical context.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 05:23
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 11
Any airline having 50%+ failure rates for commands needs to sack the whole training department.

It never happens..
You see, you only have bad trainees, never bad trainers.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 06:07
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
Any airline having 50%+ failure rates for commands needs to sack the whole training department.

It never happens..
You see, you only have bad trainees, never bad trainers.
True enough!

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Old 6th Apr 2020, 12:02
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
Any airline having 50%+ failure rates for commands needs to sack the whole training department.

It never happens..
You see, you only have bad trainees, never bad trainers.
But hang on, how is this possible if they had high quality trainers like unitedabx? LOL
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 15:47
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far west
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Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
Any airline having 50%+ failure rates for commands needs to sack the whole training department.

It never happens..
You see, you only have bad trainees, never bad trainers.
indeed Oasis, indeed.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 20:54
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: HK
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Originally Posted by Gnadenburg View Post
Twenty years ago at KA, pilots were upgrading between 10 months and 18 months and ageism didn't factor. Failure rates could be anywhere between 50% to 100% in certain periods. KA has a higher number of sectors than CX ( which helps ) and for all its operational peculiarities, KA was a little more practical ( having briefly had both CX SOPs and a loaned CX chief pilot as reference )

.


Yet so many of those who left received instant commands elsewhere. No hull loses.


KA and CX have lost hundreds of thousands in wasted training due entirely poor ‘checking’.
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 05:13
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Originally Posted by FreemaninHK View Post
Yet so many of those who left received instant commands elsewhere. No hull loses.


KA and CX have lost hundreds of thousands in wasted training due entirely poor ‘checking’.


I not aware of any perfect system.
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 05:56
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: LUX
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HKA fighting to survive somehow went to KA/CX trainers re-invented how to fly..
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 14:05
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 2,009
Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post
HKA fighting to survive somehow went to KA/CX trainers re-invented how to fly..
That’s a Better Call Saul
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 15:42
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: H.K
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by FreemaninHK View Post
Yet so many of those who left received instant commands elsewhere. No hull loses.


KA and CX have lost hundreds of thousands in wasted training due entirely poor ‘checking’.


Maybe the quality of Command upgrade candidates is the problem. The ones that seem to be failing are mostly the ones that all they have done for 10 years or more are the ones with no previous experience and put on the A/P at 200ft and then approach take it out at 200ft.
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 14:00
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Rocket town
Posts: 7
Status HKA

Since the other thread on this subject has been completely hijacked by the usual suspects and turned into a trainer bashing whirling dervish.

Looking for update on the HKA team. Any changes or decisions made, or holding fast awaiting end of lockdown.
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 14:07
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
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Originally Posted by Apollo19 View Post
Since the other thread on this subject has been completely hijacked by the usual suspects and turned into a trainer bashing whirling dervish.

Looking for update on the HKA team. Any changes or decisions made, or holding fast awaiting end of lockdown.
Didn’t see any trainer bashing. Haven’t heard anything derogatory put it that way. I hear their call sign. and indeed HKA ‘s 330’”Mascot” on occasion, so I presume that they are still going.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 06:31
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HK
Posts: 34
Blablabla

KA/CX/KA/CX
etc etc etc ad nauseum

hop off to your designated threads and leave HKA to those actually interested in the subject matter re the airline in the header

relevant news/gossip welcome
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 17:15
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 819
Umm, this is a designated thread, about HKA. Not sure what your point is.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 17:56
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
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HKA is still running? How? What the...
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