Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

New BA pay deal

Old 23rd Nov 2019, 07:42
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New BA pay deal

For all that are concerned with the ongoing resistance of CX management to address the pay concerns of their pilots, take note:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...y-deal-pilots/


To surmise: they have attained an over 11% pay raise over the next three years. CX pilots, nothing over the past three years. No effective compensation for inflation, no gain for their future career, and no protection against future comparison to their national airlines. Further and further behind. A career of failure and ruin. Fact. Fight for proper compensation, or resign and establish a career with the BA's of the world, where you will always at least keep up with inflation and career expectations.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 08:01
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Good sound advice, or more appropriately, you’re on the money
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 08:39
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Is this after they agreed to a 10% pay cut a few years ago?
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 10:04
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The Article:

"British Airways is set to avert Christmas travel chaos after striking a pay deal with pilots, drawing to a close one of the most bitter industrial rows in airline's 100-year history.

Union Balpa has written to members recommending they back a negotiated settlement that includes a sweetened pay deal and improves working conditions and bonuses.

The breakthrough is a relief to BA chief executive Alex Cruz, who has come under increasing pressure from Willie Walsh, the boss of parent IAG, to reach an agreement with pilots.

Under the terms of the deal, pilots will receive an 11.5pc pay rise over the next three years with added inflation protection. This means if RPI outstrips the agreed increase, pay will rise in line with inflation instead.

Pilots launched industrial action for the first time in BA’s history in September, grounding more than 1,700 flights over two days and costing the airline close to £125m.

A third walkout was subsequently called off as talks continued in private under the supervision of arbitration service Acas.BA boss Alex Cruz and the Queen during her visit to Heathrow airport in MayBA has promised to reinstate a range of perks stripped from pilots in the wake of the September action.

Balpa general secretary Brian Strutton said: “We can confirm that Balpa, BA and Acas have put together a new pay and conditions proposal and subject to final checks Balpa expects it will shortly be consulting its 4,000 BA members on them.”

A BA spokesman said: “We welcome this positive step."

The spat with pilots has been a thorn in the side of Mr Cruz, who had been hoping to focus on celebrating BA's centenary this year.

It comes as the airline has been rocked by a string of IT systems issues and suffered a major data breach last year, prompting information regulators to slap it with a record £183m fine.

BA may also now have to offer similar terms to cabin and ground crew, which, unlike the pilots, backed the previous pay deal. Mr Walsh, himself a former pilot, last month offered Mr Cruz only lukewarm support in the way he was managing the spat with pilots.

IAG, the FTSE 100 company that also owns Aer Lingus, Vueling and Iberia, has continued to outperform its European rivals with the prospect of further industrial action by BA pilots the main drag on its shares.

While its finances were knocked off course in the third quarter by the September strikes, IAG made £1.3bn in profit in the three months to September. Markets Hub - International Cons AirlinesMeanwhile, Emirates, the world’s biggest long-haul airline, has urged Rolls-Royce to resolve years-long problems with its Trent 1000 engines as the carrier decides who will power its latest multi-billion-dollar aircraft order.

Sir Tim Clark, boss of the Gulf carrier, said at this week’s Dubai airshow he will spend $9bn on 30 Boeing 787 Dreamliners. Rolls’ Trent 1000 is up against General Electric’s GEnx for the engine contract for the airliners.

However, the Trent 1000 has suffered problems since 2016 that has resulted in Rolls having to develop a series of fixes and costly servicing work, which has left 787s grounded.

The problems have resulted in a £2.4bn bill for Rolls, wiping billions off the company’s value as the issues drag on and airlines claim compensation for aircraft being taken out of service.

Sir Tim said: “Rolls has had a number of wake up calls and they really need to sort themselves out. I think the alarm clock has gone off a number of times. If I were on the board, I would be looking to recognise the issues ... and deal with them immediately, meaningfully, forcefully and drive change.”

A spokesman for Rolls said: “We are confident in the reliability and performance of our engines, and in our commitment to meeting the high standards expected by our customers. We have worked with Emirates for decades and we are proud to power so much of its fleet. The airline is one of the largest operators of our Trent engines in the world, and we are committed to maintaining our strong relationship with them.”
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 11:37
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I've been gone over a year now. I desperately want CX pilots to regain the value and reputation they once possessed. I was fortunate to join (1985) when CX valued their aircrew. It is now apparent that without a serous push-back against the management, the reputational value of CX is lost. You all deserve better. CX and Hong Kong is worthless without the decisive value and dedication of their aircrew. Don't allow yourselves to be devalued by short term managers who have no appreciation for the dedication and commitment of their aircrew (and that of their families). Fight back and insist on your value being recognised and rewarded.
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Old 24th Nov 2019, 17:49
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
I've been gone over a year now. I desperately want CX pilots to regain the value and reputation they once possessed. I was fortunate to join (1985) when CX valued their aircrew. It is now apparent that without a serous push-back against the management, the reputational value of CX is lost. You all deserve better. CX and Hong Kong is worthless without the decisive value and dedication of their aircrew. Don't allow yourselves to be devalued by short term managers who have no appreciation for the dedication and commitment of their aircrew (and that of their families). Fight back and insist on your value being recognised and rewarded.
Come on, Trag. You know just as well as I do CX has made a conscious effort to devalue experience. They do not hire pilots anymore. They hire random zero-time Joe Blows off the street. And this pilot group is climbing over themselves against the advice of their Union to train them. They are never going to get an increase, because why would they? Just for the hell of it? It makes zero sense to give the pilots anything when they have the pilot’s support in this race to the bottom.

In fact, it makes sense to continue the degradation of their conditions of service. There has been negligible pushback, you have an unlimited pool of no-experience applicants, and hardly anyone leaving! You get the occasional keyboard warrior on here who talks a big game but in reality know they will never leave, and will continue to train, against all common sense, their cheaper replacements. Talk about toxic. It’s pathetic.

Last edited by NoAndThen; 25th Nov 2019 at 15:43.
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Old 24th Nov 2019, 23:16
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Why will CX ever have to give their crew another pay increase? Just read another post in this forum about a DEFO willing to accept D scale.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 02:02
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Originally Posted by Oddball77 View Post
Why will CX ever have to give their crew another pay increase? Just read another post in this forum about a DEFO willing to accept D scale.
The only thing that will change current HR practices is the impending accident and the regulatory audit that will follow.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 03:40
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Originally Posted by bm330 View Post
The only thing that will change current HR practices is the impending accident and the regulatory audit that will follow.
Very optimistic. Did Air Asia or Air France renumeration change after their accidents & regulatory investigations? Personally, I think only lots of aircraft being grounded due to unable to hire crew will change it.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 07:08
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I think CX are in danger of a rapidly developing crewing crisis. With the continuing social situation B scalers are deciding it is time to cash in and leave while D scalers can’t afford to stay.
The recruiters will have to pedal ever faster just to keep up.
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 08:46
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Originally Posted by bm330 View Post
The only thing that will change current HR practices is the impending accident and the regulatory audit that will follow.
That's what you don't understand, guys joining as DEFO already have significant amounts of medium body jet time and are still more than willing to accept D scale.
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 08:57
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Originally Posted by Oddball77 View Post
That's what you don't understand, guys joining as DEFO already have significant amounts of medium body jet time and are still more than willing to accept D scale.
But for how long will they stay on? The CX reputation is mainly tainted for those who knows the company from within, either currently employed or who has left, or even better with good friends who warned them to never join Cathay. Like Trafalgar, I’ve left these clowns, I also highly recommend outsiders to reconsider their medium-long term strategy if considering joining the Cathay Circus, and for those within already within and a good amount of flying years ahead to look outside. Good luck.

Last edited by Klimax; 26th Nov 2019 at 08:58. Reason: Bla
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 11:15
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What’s a “medium body Jet?”
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 14:08
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Originally Posted by Loopdeloop View Post
What’s a “medium body Jet?”
Medium 'category' jet to be correct, anything between 7T-136T, for DEFO you need '500 hours on civil registered transport aircraft certified for multi-crew operations according to the type certificate and having a maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) > 45,000 kg'.
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