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CHAIRMAN CUTTING A DEAL

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

CHAIRMAN CUTTING A DEAL

Old 21st Jan 2019, 12:14
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 49
Posts: 215
Well if Numero gets his way and the result is a yes vote..... There will be no hope for the future.

Is the fat lady singing?


Are pilots that lame?


​​​I guess we will find out in 10 more days......
RAT Management is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2019, 12:52
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 515
Originally Posted by RAT Management View Post
Well if Numero gets his way and the result is a yes vote..... There will be no hope for the future.

Is the fat lady singing?


Are pilots that lame?


​​​I guess we will find out in 10 more days......
Meantime, we can report RL to the ICAC
unitedabx is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2019, 13:59
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 331
This has the stink of 2004 all over again when a corrupt HKAOA pres sold the 49ers out with messages of doom and gloom to its members if the vote doesn't pass. Only took the formation of another union to keep the fight going to its conclusion. Interesting how he quietly rode off into the sunset onto his new USA basing right after that. Make no mistake, the AoA is just a medium to facilitate the imposition of change by the company. Name ONE improvement in the last 20 years that has come as a result of the AoA? Like someone suggested on one of these threads, and what I had been saying for a number of years.... everyone should resign from the AoA, it is far more difficult for the company to negotiate with 3000 individuals rather than one organization that represents 3000 individuals.

Quick question NC, why are you all of sudden so vocal? Your message is that members have indicated through AoA surveys that they don't have the appetite to escalate industrial action, therefore the members should accept whatever is on offer by the company. I am not going to debate this point with you, but I am just curious as to why you never spoke out previously. I mean for years and years while we were in CC, not once in any of the forums, not once in any of the focus night that I attended did you ever voice your opinion, instead you were constantly enlightening us with your number wizardry. You've recently used example from 2001 to support your point of view, so this is obviously not a new revelation to you. Why the change?
Dragon69 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2019, 14:06
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
Posts: 183
In the meantime CH left CX this week, having resigned from the NC when he realized that "If CX want this crap it will have to be imposed on us".

Imposed or had sprinkles added, who knows, but RL sold the 747 down the steam , thanks bro.
The FUB is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2019, 14:07
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
Posts: 183
Oops CM not CH
The FUB is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2019, 15:43
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
Posts: 906
Never mind " Chairman Cutting a deal". Should be RL cutting a deal....
betpump5 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2019, 23:15
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 304
NC has been in/around the negotiating committees for a long time. Is it causation or correlation that we have fallen drastically short of any acceptable gains during his reign? Let alone kept pace with inflation?
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2019, 23:31
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: H.K
Posts: 58
RL has just been explaining things to everyone, if you don’t like the facts just vote no but no need to get personal. Don’t worry all the guys on COS99 that get pushed out at 55 will be joining COS18 and signing up for training and they aren’t the only ones.
Samsonite is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 00:56
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: HK
Posts: 49
I'm sorry but having read all the post from the GC members which have resigned you seriously have to question the timeline and actions of our NC, I guess when DS said no floor he really meant it and suddenly this deal was wrapped up given to the GC to recommend because of 1% and now handed over to us. what a joke
Firefly47 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 01:36
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 49
Posts: 215
I believe a whole bunch of guys on cos 99 signed up for cos 18 as soon as it was released ... Talk about selling everyone out.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 03:36
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The sky
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by RAT Management View Post
I believe a whole bunch of guys on cos 99 signed up for cos 18 as soon as it was released ... Talk about selling everyone out.
No they didnt, you have to resign to rejoin on cos18... which also means a downgrade.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 03:58
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by Dragon69 View Post
Make no mistake, the AoA is just a medium to facilitate the imposition of change by the company.
Spot on Dragon, I have been saying this for years.

Dilbert68 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 09:07
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 49
Posts: 215
Not skippers on cos 99 who want to extend beyond 55... That's the deal... Just like the A scale who wanted beyond 55, they signed over to B scale. Whole people are willing to exercise self servitude those in their wake will suffer the turbulence.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 15:48
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Paradise
Posts: 182
superfrozo is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 18:59
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: somewhere above the sea
Posts: 189
Imagine the lack of self respect required to turn up to do the same job you did yesterday, but for 70% less money today.
These clowns are either so lazy, or so insecure that they’d prefer to do that than to cut the Cathay cord and get a job elsewhere paying more and getting treated better.
ron burgandy is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 22:05
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 573
Imagine ?

Originally Posted by ron burgandy View Post
Imagine the lack of self respect required to turn up to do the same job you did yesterday, but for 70% less money today.
These clowns are either so lazy, or so insecure that they’d prefer to do that than to cut the Cathay cord and get a job elsewhere paying more and getting treated better.
You don't have to imagine it, just go talk to some of the many SSI's over in the FTC.. Ask them what it "feels" like ???????
Flex88 is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2019, 08:01
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
Posts: 906
I am sick to the stomach with this GC and the Propoganda that is being sent out is becoming more and more alarming by the day.

My absolute thanks to those on the forums asking the very difficult yet necessary legal questions that this GC is purposefully glossing over for their own disturbing reasons. A big thanks also to those that have stepped down publicly as they don't want to be associated with something that will go down in AOA history - for the wrong reasons.

To those on the fence and to those who are considering voting Yes because "this is the best we can expect" - You are making a terrible mistake. A NO vote goes much further than just telling management that what they are offering is nowhere near good enough. It is also a NO vote against this GC and future GCs that Propoganda and downright lies will never be accepted by the membership.

A Yes Vote is a vote for ending the Union. You have been warned .

​​​​​​
betpump5 is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2019, 11:04
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 49
Posts: 215
Is it just me or does everyone smell a stench from this "best we can expect" deal?

Everything from the pit of my stomach instinctually tells me to vote NO!

The trust had been erroded by one side only. But that same side requires the umbrella clause that is also one sided.... Why? because they can not trust "US!" And they need a gauranteed future!

In return we get a gauranteed 1%. Are you crazy?

They made the mistakes. They need to fix them.

This is not an acceptable fix.... If you think it is, then vote Yes.

But don't vote Yes because you can't see anything better coming around the corner.

You need to realize that there are things that will change for the worse if it is a Yes vote ( like change in reserve, W patterns, 3 man long haul) it's just not detailed in plain sight yet, but with hindsight you will be saying"what was I thinking". Sure you will win a few small financial gains. But these do not (even close) address the real issues, or account for the negatives you will be voting yes to.

The Sum of the parts are greater than the whole. That's why they want it voted as one big package.... Do you smell a rat in this. Trust your instincts.

Look at the big picture and realize that this is a giant turd. Make them and those who support it eat it.... But don't even attempt to take a bite out of this offering.... Not for a second.

Think beyond what you stand to gain. Think about the whole group, the future, and what it will mean for the longevity of your career, and others.

It's not a great place where we are right now. But it's better to sit here than to agree to a worse place without any recourse except for legal challenge....

It's not about what you are going to gain. It's about what we need to preserve. We cannot afford to give away any degredation to our lifestyle and conditions.... Not for a few measly $$$.

If you, like me, see this whole thing as wrong.... Please vote No!






RAT Management is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2019, 12:26
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 751
This deal effectively gives me a tiny bit "more". However, I am voting "NO" because it is the product of a broken system, a broken union and represents the very worst management tendencies and intentions in the airline industry. It will herald the end of the the distinguished and respected airline that was once Cathay Pacific. This offer is an abomination. It will destroy our careers, our pride and our integrity. It is unworthy of a single "yes" vote. Vote "NO" knowing you are standing up for your self-worth, your value as a professional pilot and your legacy. This deserves to be rejected with malice. Only a NO vote will tell this management we've had enough. It won't be an easy road ahead, but it WILL be the right decision. Don't sell yourselves and your colleagues down the river into professional oblivion.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2019, 15:16
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 573
Yes / No ???

Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
This deal effectively gives me a tiny bit "more". However, I am voting "NO" because it is the product of a broken system, a broken union and represents the very worst management tendencies and intentions in the airline industry. It will herald the end of the the distinguished and respected airline that was once Cathay Pacific. This offer is an abomination. It will destroy our careers, our pride and our integrity. It is unworthy of a single "yes" vote. Vote "NO" knowing you are standing up for your self-worth, your value as a professional pilot and your legacy. This deserves to be rejected with malice. Only a NO vote will tell this management we've had enough. It won't be an easy road ahead, but it WILL be the right decision. Don't sell yourselves and your colleagues down the river into professional oblivion.
Do not forget, even the company they hired to help "negotiate" a contract (remember HPE) walked away in disgust at the sham pretence of CX "leadership" negotiating in good faith.. Nothing has changed.
As well, re HK Govt employment ordinance, they (I believe) can't arbitrarily change your COS in a detrimental manner THEREFORE, the only way they can accomplish that same task is get you to vote this garbage in..

Last edited by Flex88; 24th Jan 2019 at 15:57.
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